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Okay, I start printing a ton of photographs, what do I do with them afterwards? If you look at a lot of the, I guess, classic, trained photographers, you go to the studio they have archival boxes labeled print of their favorite photographs or the ones that they love the most. So, buying archival boxes is definitely key and you can start labeling them whether it's cities, people, whatever it may be, and you just start saving them like that. Again, I mean, I always have a fear of technology at times especially hard drives. If your hard drives aren't double backed up or whatever it may be, they crash, I mean, the idea of losing all the photographs you made, some of the photographs, your favorite ones, it's a scary thought. But at least if you're printing and you're archiving them properly and storing them, if God forbid anything like that happened you have tangible backups of your work as well. Then also too it goes back to you wanna reference an image you made, it's just way stronger to ...

pull this out, flip through this versus going onto your computer and trying to find it. And the same thing, these portfolio binders can store the images as well. So you could build collection of this book, binder books, you can build collections of these. Now the one thing I really thought was interesting is once I started building the portfolio binders together, realizing how work sits well with one another. So if you're gonna have a gallery showing for example, you're gonna make a zine, you wanna make a book, you start to understand how your work sits with other images that you made. 'Cause before I think for some people when they start exploring this idea of okay, you're gonna print photos you're gonna hang for a show, some of them might not have a specific theme that they noticed before. They might just pick their 10 most liked photos on Instagram and they could be a variety of images that don't make sense with one another. And you hang it on a wall, it's just not the same as it is looking at it on your phone. But through this form of piecing together prints and photographs, you start to look at your work and start to see oh, well, I noticed I was paying attention to this kind of theme multiple times so now I have 10 to 20 images that work well together. I noticed I was using stronger use of light for these set of images, they could work well together. So it really comes down to like understanding your work more than just posting and forget about it. And that's the other thing that I definitely would say is most people if you feel that strongly enough about your photograph that you'll post it, chances are I'd imagine you should be printing that image too. If that's how convicted you are about it and how strong you feel, go print it. Whether it's yourself, go down to your local print shop. Most people let you sit in and watch the process or understand the process, if you're intimidated before buying a printer do that because that's how you're gonna get your feet in without too much commitment, and you're gonna see where it goes from there. And you'll start to understand things a little bit more clearer. Yeah, so for me that's been the biggest, the most rewarding process per se. Scratch like making money selling prints, that wasn't the reason why I got into doing it. I'm just discovering that it was a bigger realization of my work and what I'm doing and where I wanna go with it. And also just I mean, the idea that this is here in the world and not just living on a hard drive or anything like that. Yeah. And also these are other images I wanted to demonstrate as well. This is Evidence, one of the outtakes from his album cover. And this is just one of the shoots with some of the models that I do in LA. But again, it's also framing, bordering, understanding if you were to hang images together can they work well? So, it all goes hand in hand with everything that we're doing here. So, one question. Valerie had asked about when, so she sells a lot of prints for high school seniors and things like that, so she's doing portraits. And she had a question about, just your thoughts really on watermarking or adding names. Obviously the images that we're seeing here we're not really seeing your name necessarily printed or watermarked on that. What are your thoughts on that? Like how do you feel about it? My thoughts on watermarking, again, it's all personal preference but my thought is I wanna demonstrate my signature through my photograph and not branding that way. Some people might take it like that but I think if you start placing logos on the image you take something away from it. But it depends on your business model and what it is. If she's running a studio business she might want that on the back so when people see it they know where to go for it. But I think if it's personal work you shouldn't need to do that. You should focus more on making the photograph be the signage than marking it with something else. Yeah. Curtis has also asked about what kind of boxes you recommend for archiving or if you have any particular brands that you like to use or anything like that? Yeah, I think Kalumet is some of the boxes that I use, that's the main ones that I use, yeah. I mean, I just go to Samy's and Samy's is a local shop in LA and they have a variety of storage boxes. So I usually will just try some out and just try to see what works better for me. But these ones I've been pretty happy with, pretty durable. So, those are the ones that I usually go with. We've got magnets in use here to hold Yeah. Pictures up but if you have any recommendations in terms of displaying photographs, if you didn't wanna use magnets or if they damage all the actual print. Yeah, these ones won't, this company makes it specifically for artwork and for prints and everything. There's a variety of ways you can demonstrate your photography. I even see like if you want it inexpensive go to Ikea. They have wiring and clips. If it's really just to demonstrate, like I wouldn't clip something that you plan on archiving. But if you just wanna hang them and just kinda see, like play around with that, because that's the thing too with printing is versus jumping in to say, this is like box size for 17 by 22 paper. So versus you wanna see how the print's gonna look initially versus printing this size paper, start five by seven, four by six, eight and a half by 11s. That way you're gonna save the more expensive, bigger paper and you're gonna be able to see like before committing. Because then you could see it, well, how big do I want the scale to be, how big of the border do I want? How are the blacks? How are the colors rendering? So, that's another rule of thumb I believe is when you're going in the print. You don't need to jump in to the biggest size that you think you're gonna target. Start with the smaller one, save yourselves some time and money. And then when you feel like you've perfected it for that size then you can run it to the bigger, the same paper. What's your opinion about paper profiles? I mean do you have to use them? Yeah, so that's an important thing. Didn't get a chance to get to it. When you get the paper whether it's from Moab or say the printer, there's two types of profiles initially that you get offered to use. One's through the paper company which you select your printer that you're working with. You select the paper you're using, you download it, install it onto your computer, it's very easy. And then when you're printing, use that to print. Sometimes the printer manufacturer will have their stock profile so it's almost a balance of which one do I use? I definitely would suggest using Moab's profiles when working with their paper. If you wanna go a layer deeper there's a company out of Los Angeles, Freestyle Photo, they do custom profiles. Because their philosophy and idea is you could have two same model printers, they're just not gonna print exactly the same. That's just technology, that's just how it is. So what they'd offer is a color chart, two color charts. You print them yourself on the paper you wanna use and you send it in to them. They scan how that paper reacts to your printer, the colors, and then what they do is they send you their own custom ICC profile for you, so it's unique for your printer and the paper that you're using. So you just got to purchase a new profile every different type of paper you wanna work with. I've been using that since finding out about it and I feel it's more consistent with all the paper types that I'm using, with all the images that I'm printing. So I've never had any issues. So that's a layer deeper if you wanna go beyond the stock profiles that Moab will provide. Yes? Does Moab paper come also in rolls? Yes. They come in a variety of sizes, rolls. They have custom, handmade Japanese paper. It's really great. I was initially turned on to them by a friend maybe five years ago for the Baryta Rag and that got me hooked since then, so I've explored a lot of their papers and yeah, it's really good stuff. Got a quiet audience today. Oh. This one right next to you. Over here. So, my question for you would be like what sort of challenges have you faced while printing for the course of the-- Okay, I think the initial challenges I faced was it's much like your camera. When you get a camera you wanna understand dynamic range, high ISO, low ISO capabilities, what you can do with it. Same thing can be said for a printer. So, initially color matching was probably the hardest thing for me, was like, well, why is it, if it looks red on my screen why is it not looking red on here, and that even goes into another layer of printing which is color calibrating your screen. And also the space you're working on on your computer. So, sRGB is kinda like the standard coloring workspace that most people use and the output of that image is more or less made for devices. So, phone screens, tablets, et cetera. The best color workflow for printing is Adobe RGB 1998 which sounds a little dated but you're gonna get a truer match of what is gonna come out on the paper versus like what's on your screen. So, that's one issue too 'cause when you're doing that you can say, well, looks great on my phone, it doesn't look great when I print. So that's one factor to consider as well is color calibrating your monitor and also adjusting the space you're working in from sRGB, Adobe RGB. There's a monitor company that works really well called BenQ. It works in both spaces, Adobe RGB, sRGB and fairly inexpensive, come in different sizes. I got one of those, I connect it to my iMac Pro and I could just kinda see if I wanna see how it's gonna look on web, switch it to sRGB, if I'm printing then I wanna look at it in Adobe RGB. The other factor too is understanding the papers. So after you do that, you can say, well, when I looked at it on my screen if you don't understand how this paper is, why is it coming out like that? Some papers may have a warmer coloring to it, some paper may have a cooler coloring to it. So, those are the initial things that you might not really have contemplated when you're printing. You're not sure why is it coming like this? So, all these pieces together from beginning to end will help you understand. So it's kinda like a trial and error. 100% In a sense. Yeah, that's what I'm saying is that you can get all the basic fundamentals explained to you or broken down to you but it comes down to you trying it on your own. And that's how you're gonna learn 'cause you got to keep trying and it could be frustrating at times 'cause you want it to come out the gate and be great but to me, that's the fun part is making errors and messing up and learning how to correct them on your own or correct them through a way, and getting the final output that you wanted. Yeah. Do your photography choices change now that you started printing? Does that affect what you decide to shoot? Or do you-- No, it never affects what I decide to shoot but like I said, I've been a big fan of the Baryta Rag so, figuring out of the texture of type of paper that you really love working with it becomes part of you. So, it's part of your workflow, it's part of the end result of what you're doing. So, it never has changed it but it's also I can say, all right, if someone wanted to buy a print and they liked a certain kinda images, what might be good for me might not be what they want, so that's another thing an idea is there's two ways you can go when printing your work as a photographer. One is I'm gonna print on this kinda paper only because this is how I want it to be envisioned, this is the final outcome I want. And then there's some people who sell prints and when they do it, they wanna cater to the customer. You want something shiny and glossy, well I'll give you the dual semi-gloss or I might give you an exhibition luster. So, it goes both ways. You could either let the person know, hey this is how it's coming out, this is how I intended it to render in physical form, or you could try to make everyone as happy as you want them to be. Yeah. We have lots of people itching to know about your thoughts about printers. Everyone's like, "What about printers?" But I know you're gonna talk more about that. Yeah, for sure. So, for everyone who's asking about printers, I've recently dove into the Canon world of printing for a while. I was only using Epsons but I've had two master printers, one from the East Coast, one from the West Coast. They know of each other but they're not friends, different times, both tell me how great these Canon printers are. So after doing, I took a workshop myself with one of them and after learning that and seeing them in person, I would have to say the Canon PRO-1000, the PROGRAF 1000 and the Canon PROGRAF 2000, those are the printers that I have. They're phenomenal printers, great results. So if anyone's asking out there, those two off the top of my head I would say to check out. But again, it's price range, it's taste, go down to your local store and just see what's on display and ask them to do samples, show you what they look like. But yeah, right now it's Canon. Some graphics designers who are interested in printing their work in large format and just looking for recommendations. Yeah, I mean large format, the Canon PROGRAF 2000 does 24-inch wide. So you could start from there and go up but yeah, I mean, large format printing, it's even more impressive 'cause when you start playing with the scale of an image, that's where I'm saying you could start letter size and then kinda go up. And when you see your photos go from five by seven to 24 by 36 and bigger, the impact you get from it is really impressive because you're starting to see the scale of the photograph and that's another thing I'll even jump into really quick is with photography what I've learned as well is this idea that like if you were to print, say something shot with a 24 millimeter lens, something shot with a and you try to frame it the same size, it might not render the same. So, my personal thing that I've learned is the wider the lens used to make the photograph, the bigger that print should be to really translate what it is. The compression within like say a 50 millimeter or higher like if you just try to do them the same they're not gonna resonate in the same way. So that's another fun thing is you're shooting photos, making photographs with different focal lengths, experiment with scale to see how you really can bring out the impact of one or the other. And Ginger had asked when you don't know what the lighting conditions will be where an image is gonna be viewed, how do you choose your print density? Oh, if I don't know what it's gonna be? Well, that's a good question. I would say if you have the opportunity to go to a gallery and try to take in the lighting consideration, do it. 'Cause a lot of times those people who mail stuff off, you're hoping that the gallery curator knows what they're doing and they should, but that's why I really feel using one of these GTI light boxes and having a calibrated monitor, and having all the pieces together to make your print come true to its form, you did your part in your end. You know, that layer deeper, well, what's the lighting gonna be that you can explore that. But as long as you do the part on your end and make it hey, this is true. If it's not being shown correctly in your gallery, that's the gallery you're working with and that's their take on it. You could step in and adjust it yourself but I think making your own print, it's getting to a point where I've delivered to you how I want it to look and its truest form. If you guys don't have the proper lighting I don't know if I, you guys need to focus on yourself as a gallery or question what you're doing, you know? And what would you and could you talk us through some of the adjustments you might make yourself just from that first print Yeah. To what you would feel. So, that's another thing to consider is how heavy your processing is when going through your photographs. Some people will do crazy color saturation and all that stuff, and that's the thing too is understanding printing will help you if you wanna resonate that same coloring from your screen to the paper, you got to put in that time, you got to learn it. 'Cause sometimes the colors are so crazy that they're not gonna come out perfect out of the gate because you've just gone so far left with your saturation, with your HDR with whatever it may be, and you might need some time to adjust that. For me, working with the Adobe RGB space and the calibrated monitor allows me to pretty much be like 99% there when it comes to print. But then again, it's also considering the paper, some papers will have a heavier contrast to it and it's understanding the workflow. So I mean any adjustments that I do to my photograph on printing very minimal if any at this point. It could be contrast, highlights and shadows, that's about it. So, processing through Lightroom, Photoshop, do you print natively through Lightroom and Photoshop or do you use something else? Well, it's a good question. So going back to the use of the Canon printers, they have their own software, Canon Studio Pro. That's what I've been using to print. I think it gives it more information for the printer to work with and it's native within the printer so that's what I used. I've used Photoshop prior and Photoshop did pretty well for all the years I was doing it but again, it goes back to being more consistent with the Canon, its plugin software and the end results that I'm getting from that. And then I had a question about what does your exporting process look like? You take the picture, do you take out your card and plug it into a computer. Do you do it over WiFi? Oh, when I'm printing at home? Yeah, when you're taking the picture from the camera to maybe Adobe or wherever. If it's digital then yeah, I'm just importing it to the hard drive using Bridge. That's the process, so I make selects through Bridge then I use Camera Raw to process it. Camera Raw then goes into Photoshop, I always use Photoshop since 2002, it was before Lightroom so that's just my workflow. And then from Photoshop you wanna select the print, you automate and then there's the Canon Studio Pro. And then you open that up, it creates another window. You can make adjustments within that as well. So, that's usually the workflow that I run with and then when I save it, I save a file as a PSD. If I've gonna give an image to someone else for them to print I usually just send them a high res TIFF file, I'll never send them the PSD, they don't need that. The TIFF has plenty of information for anyone to work with them making a print. Do you feel like the process of kinda jumping around loses quality or do you feel like you're able to maintain that same quality? Well, there's not much jumping around 'cause if it's within Photoshop and it's the file that I originally opened I'm working with, exporting that one TIFF for someone, I mean I could send that out so I'm never really jumping around too much. And any changes you wanna make to your photo whether it's the color, contrast, et cetera, reopen that original Photoshop file and you're not losing any quality, you maintain through that way, yeah. But a couple of questions or recommendations, so one was your favorite paper to use for black and white and your favorite for color if you have a preference. Okay. As far as my favorite papers that I use, for black and white if I'm solely printing black and white, the Entrada Rag Textured 300. I really love that paper, I love the weight of it, I love how it feels and I love the matte look and how it renders the black and white. If I'm doing color, Juniper Baryta Rag I like. It's a little bit of a warmer tone to the paper but that's my favorite. And then I'll even say as a secondary back up, the Baryta Rag handles black and white very well, so that's just my versatile paper from Moab. Awesome. Yeah. And the other question was ink. Somebody's saying, "I always use Epson "but wonder what else is good to use?" I would never use any third party inks I would say within the manufacturer's realm. So, it's made by them, it's for it. That's just been my experience. I've never ventured off because I wanna stay with what works and what's intended to work with that printer. I'm sure there's third party companies who can make inexpensive and comparable ink but I wouldn't wanna risk my whole system to trying something that's not made by the company itself. And that's another thing I'll touch on as far as for ink stuff between the Epson and the Canon printers. What I experience was the Epsons you wanna go from photo black ink to matte black ink, you're waiting about 15 minutes sometimes 'cause it's switching the inks and it's wasting ink. The Canons they seamlessly can go between one or the other. So that was a big plus for me was not having to kill time and kill ink wanting to try a different piece of paper. And then also the ink level and reserves on the Canons it catches more ink in the reserves. So, I think you get a longer stretch out of your ink cartridges for Canon than you did for, than I did for Epson, yeah. Yeah, so I mean again, I'll try to do a quick rundown, I think the importance of print is something that's well needed. I think if you're already making prints then great, the world needs more of that. If you're not making prints I think you should definitely take a look and start exploring the way that makes most sense for you to start making print. Again, paper, archival boxes, portfolio binders. Yeah, light boxes. You also got sleeves to store them as well another way. You've got shipping tubes, there's a whole thing to it and it can be very overwhelming and very intimidating but if you're investing yourself in this craft because you love it, I think you should be investing it from beginning to end, and not just stopping at the screen. That's at least my take on it, that's where printing has kind of taken me. I have a question concerning fading of the prints over time. Is there some papers longer lasting, ink combination's longer lasting so they don't fade after say, five years? Well, most papers especially something like these from Moab, they're legit fine art archival papers. And then using a high quality ink from your printer, Epson or Canon, those are tested as well. So, chances are unless you're leaving it in direct sunlight everyday, you're not gonna see fading in five years. There's another layer you can go deeper beyond your print which is kind of like a sealer, like a varnish almost. Epson or not Epson, Moab makes like a spray that you can coat your print with it after and that'll add some more protection to it. So I think that's where the technology has gotten, maybe 20 years ago if you did an inkjet printer of a photograph it might have faded pretty quickly but now, you can go for years and years and years without compromising the quality of your print. If someone was like say today, wanted to get started, what are your recommendations really for a beginner, like where to start, how do you start? Okay, well start, one is pick up a sample pack of paper. You're gonna get the variety, it's letter size, so it's not that crazy to jump into it. After that start looking at printers. Again, it depends no so much price range but most companies they have something for everybody. You know, it's a discussion, letting the sales person know this is where I'm at. Hopefully they're a good sales person and they're not trying to just up sell you, just up sell you that they wanna get you in on something that works for you from the beginning and you can grow with them. Those would be the first two things. The other parts would take place when you get home is starting to explore the Adobe RGB 1998 space versus sRGB. 'Cause even when you do that on your screen you will see subtle differences in your photographs going between those two color spaces. Then that's it, then as we're talking about earlier, it's trial and error. So you go from there, you start to see how color photographs render on certain papers. You start to see how black and white photographs render on certain papers and you have to look at it. You shouldn't just glance it over and say, oh this or that, like really stare at them and see which ones make the most sense to you. So, when shooting film do you have a different process for printing than you do for digital? Okay, that's a good question. I don't have a different process. You know, the medium of how you make your photograph, that can be one thing but I think on the outcome it's all relative. I use Baryta Rag paper per se for my digital and my film shots. I'm gonna see if I even have something to demonstrate in here, the one that's a film and one that's a digital shot. And I think you could kinda see that it's not as different as you might assume it to be. See, what do I have in here? Here we go. Yeah, so I mean, the shot, the shot on the right or your left, this one is film, this one's digital. You know, so I don't think working with film or digital in the end it's gonna matter. But again, it comes down to the touches and the finish of the paper, how you want the image to resonate at the end. How do you factor in the cost of a final print including paper, ink, drafts, do-overs? Obviously you've got it down I'm sure to a certain degree of knowledge for what the budget is gonna work out like but yeah, how do you factor that altogether? Okay. For me the only factoring element that I really try to create is if you're starting to sell your prints, what's a fair price? That's the first thing. What's realistic to most people? 'Cause again it's what's fair to you and what's fair to everybody else especially if you're starting out. Selling prints at $10, $20 is nothing, there's no shame in that because you start somewhere you go up. The second factor I include to try and figure out a price is maybe the content of the photograph. What is it? Is it a general landscape that I, anyone can walk up and shoot? It's kinda hard to over charge someone for a photograph that most people can make? If it's a really unique moment then that maybe increases the quality or the level of pricing for that. Those are the two things, so as far as like trial and error of running through sheets and trying to get it right, I wouldn't push that price point into the customer. That's your error, figuring out as you go. You just have to pay the cost for that. But again, I think pricing out your photographs comes down to the user and what they feel is fair for themselves for the customer. And what does that photograph mean to them? You know, how much does that photograph I guess, customer mean to them? Awesome. Mm-hmm. Do you create borders in Photoshop and what dimensions do you prefer? The borders that I make like say if you're gonna print from Photoshop or printing from the Canon Studio Pro, you just scale the image. It's not a pre-made layer of sorts. It's literally you bring it in to print and you could scale it from 100, 100 would fill the whole thing. You can start from 50 and just adjust it. For me if I'm sending a print out to somebody, I prefer inch and a half, two-inch border. If they wanna mat it, if they wanna frame it, you wanna sign it, there's enough room to incorporate all of that. And that's another thing too is playing with scale of the image. You don't have leave it, bleed it from edge to edge, you can play with the sizing of it. So even if it was eight and a half by you can make it small if you really wanted to play with the viewer's attention of it. Do I have to squint and pull in to look for it or is it just in my face? But as far as the borders, inch and a half, two inches, it's just scaling the image right before your print and that's how you get those. Do you tend to exchange a lot of your physical prints with other photographers and artists, like that kind of chat amongst in community to kind of like compare and contrast? Oh, definitely. I mean, I have friends of mine who make photographs and we'll trade. I'll make a print, give it to them and they'll make a print, give it to me. And I think that's the whole fun of it is it's not just limited to who has money for it but it's also your love of other prints and your love of, well, how can I get it, I'll pay for it or if you wanna trade, let's trade. I prefer borderless and I noticed all of yours have borders. Is there a pro or con to that? The only con that I've experienced when you do edge to edge is like again when it comes to printing. You know, so if I have, I mean not printing, I'm sorry, framing. So if you have an important part of your photograph on the edge, depends on how someone frames it. It's a lot trickier to frame it. So that's why I usually try to leave a border for it and I think it comes down to an aesthetic. So I mean if you do edge to edge that could be like your signature thing of your prints that when people see that, they know it's one of yours. Playing with scale could be another thing 'cause if you really just made use of like negative space and had the image solely in the center, then people might understand that's someone's type of print. So I think it's what makes sense or what means most to you. But for me it's, I've been a big fan of that. So even like for example, playing with a perspective of printing. So versus landscape orientated image, I could have done it sideways but I did it like this and I think there's something to that especially if you're in a portfolio book. Giving to somebody they don't have to turn it, they can kinda see it for what it is and kinda keep it going unless you made say a whole landscape portfolio and everything could be sideways and they flip through it that way. So, playing with orientation perspective is definitely encouraged and I think it's very important to explore that and see pause, and say, "Oh, that looks kinda cool. "I like that." Another aspect is whatever ratio I have in the camera it doesn't seem to ever translate well to printing and then end up with a cropping I don't like or having to have borders. Yeah, so I mean when you're cropping for printing, (snickers) if you wanna leave it the same orientation as what the camera gave you which is usually 3:2, the cropping there's different ratios and different specs for it, you just leave it original ratio crop. And you could pull diagonal corners, side to side, up and down and it'll stay within the realm of 3:2. And 3:2 usually works best with 11 by 17s. Again, it comes down to the paper but it's also not being afraid of, I think we get a little bit more formal sometimes with printing and you want it to fit a certain way. But I think when you kinda loosen up and you allow it to fit within the realm of the paper, then you start seeing different results. Yeah. Do you seem to alter your images? I know like with digital media people are kinda editing them pretty crazy. Are you kinda closer to that end or do you stay more true to the true image? And which do you prefer? My personal take with my photographs is leaving it as true as it is. To me photography is in one of the like honest mediums. So, I wanna translate what I saw, how I saw it in the most purest way to the viewer. So I'm not doing a ton of stuff to that and that's the fun part for me at least is when I'm going through my photographs, I'm not spending countless hours making it look like something that I didn't see in person. And when I go to print it's kind of seamless, it's A to Z within hours. Even faster so. Did you say a question? Yes, in regards to the trial and error process which I feel like I've been experiencing for the past few years. You get your screens calibrated, it looks good, it looks good on your phone, the image. Send it off to the print shop, comes back and it's generally like too dark. I found my images come back a little too dark. I'm wondering what your first go-to is? Do you just try out different color profiles, different paper, or would you go back and bring up your exposure levels? Are you doing this yourself or is this through an outside print lab? Outside and myself so a little bit of both. Okay, well again I think the one thing is I would always use, the base would always be using their profile when printing so I'd always use that. The second thing is the workspace 'cause initially when I first started switching from sRGB to Adobe, I saw the shadows render differently. So, that's one thing I would say look into that if you haven't already, is it sounds like you have your monitor calibrated, you got the profiles. Experiment with that and see how that works because that's what might set it a little bit different. 'Cause if you're getting more contrast or heavier shadows that could be one thing. Yeah I've not tried the Adobe '98 yet, so. You haven't tried it yet? I haven't tried that. Yeah. I'll give it a shot. Yeah and see how that goes and then from there, maybe just playing with the adjustment on how the, when you calibrate your monitor, will ask you to adjust brightness on. So just do that but the Adobe RGB space I think explore that first before feeling like you're stuck or feeling like there's nowhere to go from it. For sure. Yeah. Right on, thank you. Yup. Awesome. Yeah. Well, I wanna say thank you to everybody who's been getting in touch online and everyone who's asking questions. Is there anything else? I know I probably missed some stuff but I think for the most part I wanted to get the general basis 'cause the idea of this engagement, this discussion was just to get people's feet rolling on the idea of printing. But not only just printing like how to preserve them, how to present them, what paper to use. These kinda tools that help you like truly see your prints and how they come together. So that was the biggest thing I wanted to have. Definitely a little bit nervous knowing this a livestream, live audience so I definitely appreciate everyone's patience for that and the questions that have been coming in. But all in all, that's what I wanted to go with. So I mean, unless anyone has any other questions. Yeah, I was just wondering if you could touch on your shipping process. Yeah, of course you do the shipping process. So that's another factor is this when you wanna start selling prints, we could touch on that for sure. I normally will ship eight and a half by 11, 11 by 14 I do them flat. There's a company, Dot Line Corp, that sells photo mailers. So, it comes in envelop and it comes with pieces of cardboard inside. So, you would slide those photos flat. I tape the cardboard together so it doesn't move around and that's one way to ship it, it's been pretty solid. Anything bigger than that you got to start rolling but you also got to get he plastic protective sleeves. So you take the print, put it in the sleeve, put it between the cardboard under the mailer. You're usually good to go like that. So when you start getting the bigger paper you're gonna wanna start rolling. Getting cotton gloves so you're not getting any fingerprints, any smudges or anything on the paper is one thing. There's a company that I use called Yazoo Mills, they make durable, strong shipping tubes, all different sizes. They've been great. Everyone that I've ever shipped or rolled paper to has never received a damage or broken or messed up. They're out of Pennsylvania, they do really strong tubes like they're great. I would even say Canson makes kind of like a wax butcher paper. I roll the print with that. So I'm not just rolling a bare print and putting it in the tube, I would put it in this wax paper, butcher paper, roll it up, get the artist low impact tape so it doesn't tear when you take it off. Roll it up like that, put that in and then load it up in the tube, tape the ends of the tube shut and get the shipping instructions label and all that kind of stuff put onto it and send it out. That's more or less in a nutshell how you would do the larger format prints. Yeah. And another, as far as software if you wanna go, if you're trying to set up an online store, two pieces that I use, I just use the Big Cartel, it's only like 10 bucks a month to be able to list enough products to do that. And I use company called ShipStation for processing the shipping information. So you literally can just print the shipping labels through them. They track your orders, they let you know what you shipped, when you have them shipped. They work through the postage so they give you all the postage and everything, it's all in one so it's very easy and very seamless to use. And then did you bring a picture that's like maybe one of these is like the most meaningful to you? I don't have the one that's most meaningful to me here but I would say one of my favorite photographs is definitely this image of the boy jumping a puddle. Yeah 'cause I think the more and more you make photographs there's a lot that you do enjoy but I think any photographer has like that top three to five that are really special and meaningful to them. And I think just being able to purely recognize a boy just having fun with the puddle was really cool. I think it's also kinda cool because it's maybe a little bit more rundown but in the background you see like the corporate Los Angeles. Yeah. So you kinda get a feel for like yes, it's beautiful corporate but this is actually what's going on just on the other side of town. Yeah, for sure. All right, well, I definitely wanna say thank you to CreativeLive, thank you to Moab, thank you to everyone in the audience today for taking the time out of your day to come sit in and talk about printing and photography with myself. And thank you to all of you taking the time out of your day to watch at home, wherever you're at, watch this. Hopefully it was a bit informative, hopefully you had fun chiming in with discussions and questions. And I guess check out CreativeLive for more info on how to understand processes of all your creative endeavors.