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Bass Tracking

Lesson 18 from: Studio Pass with Tommy Rogers and Jamie King

Tommy Rogers, Jamie King

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Lesson Info

18. Bass Tracking

Lesson Info

Bass Tracking

But awesome who go over the base miking technique in the mikes that I prefer to use obviously we're using an industry standard here the damn pig ate ten classic uh again standard for reason I think and they just they sound great really flexible love that eight tens of the speakers that come in and I think they're going to say there's soft take made maybe don't exactly whatever but I know they they really found good recorded nice tight punchy base down but I used him industry standard mike's with thea with the base riggs whatever you like sennheiser four twenty ones one of my favorite on access and use also off axis I will use a beta fifty two aa a large die for him dynamic again these air both dynamics and if you're the proximity is the same you we're not gonna have too much issue with any phase problems again in a lot of people you can use a condenser microphone in conjunction with the dynamic on the bass amp also but just like guitar you can have phase issues that you might have tio ...

to rectify ah but just like with the guitar usually what I do is I'll have um the four twenty one more straight on just right off the sound right off the coon here in the middle to slightly off and normally like that I would spend some time just like we guitar just kind of moving it around you know just an answer to here and they're trying to get that perfect full range tone you're going to pick up most of the highs and lows with this position and in off axis I would blend the large die for him course isn't the ideal setting at work but this will be a little further office the cone whatever and pick up more of the lows and the mids fromthe speakers which were generated towards the outside of speaker and that's pretty much it cool very similar to the guitar is just you know, a slight difference in preference for the mike obviously more tune for the lows and these the high end is a bit fatter s o it's it's got a different kind of ah you know base should sit in the mix differently obviously frequency wass you know the guitars were more dominating enough for mid range and the base is gonna have some mid range but lower upper mid range and then primarily the low meds and lows where the base is gonna live so so just different mike mike the choice is same title approach and obviously likes it a lot of people record based to rick and I also record the base d I just like guitar always just in case I rarely honestly used the base direct in the mix but some people like a bass direct tunnel if somebody client brings me a tone reference that I could tell you know the direct base has a different quality is usually a little more transient a little more extended low wind you know those things there's qualities that make it you know I can tell they're different just from experience with the direct based signal in the mix and you know, they bring me a reference and that's what they really wanted us you know, you're right yeah, I'll give them what they want but I usually at least trying it just because it's a little warmer it sits in the mix with the guitars nicely yeah, it is a kind of a traditional thing also there's a aiming these things like that's different yeah, right on a base come in do you always go direct like cornered right at the yeah it's really similar like said this is attempting to do this and this is just kind of looks different cause it's not, but normally I would have this that an angle a little bit to kind of kind of kind of pointed at the center of this mike stands just kind of loose and yeah, you know, I said I'd be it's been a little more time we'll just do this for you, but yeah, this is kind of usually more kind of an angle, but mohr picking up like said the the you know around the cone of the speaker all right should I see what that sounds like just do that let's do it let's get this good mccall tell me if you don't mind we'll check the tuning on the base intonation should be in the ballpark way checked it yesterday so it should be checked in it began like said just like guitar cd so I checked for every all my clients but one thing is the crucial with base you know obviously bases really common figure style in rock in middle so you want to find out how do you play it like retaining baseball place for your style you need to know for your stuff they honestly fix a little bit but I like to tryto she's a drummer likes especially usually a lot this is a good opportunity like the band jams the drummer during the initial tracking in the baseball is going you know you need to kind of do that for the tuning with the baseball is like you know they're nothing like ok I need to to like that and I know tommy doesn't just kill the base unit so we just feel like a medium regular normally I would check the intonation same thing just check it all fred and locations make sure it's playing into we checked in yesterday it was pretty good so just the move a ford but again with base I usually try to make sure I'll try to get the client to give me an idea, I mean, to bass tones or so across the board, you know, I think they're more very thing guitar tones really well basis such a tricky instrument because of videos where it sits in the mix because that can really make a part a lot better. The oregon distracted parts lobby we don't understand how important bases and there was a session important certain people don't hear it that well, you know, all the bass players that are watching the feet are like yes, thank you, hear, like, beat, even an essential and dana's all up. Yeah, but it's not so bad, is not so high and, you know, like an annoying tone words like distracting and exit works in terms of the orchestration of the parts and it's tasteful with danny, and it ends and saying, whatever so I really like get base, just it's an interesting instrument, just it's, another piece to the puzzle. But, you know, on the flipside, there's there's times were like, you know, there's metal bands of stuff, or sometimes the bass player just leads to simplify it and not do, you know, crazy stuff, you know, so yes, part of my goal to is the kind of to think of the base a lot times bass players, oftentimes they don't think they're trying to do the coolest part they can do that sounds cool by themselves when you know in the ensemble and how it makes us with the drums on the guitar and the job of the base together, like, dude, you might want to tone that down or just play subdivisions or your pick your punches with the crazy stuff you know I'm or more likely to recommend a change in the baseline than almost any other thing and that's another thing, I think, like you said, sometimes a change really helps the song do I think a lot of people take that personally? Yeah, I mean, I've been there and we all have you write something you think it's perfect, and I think, it's, just one of those things you you like saying earlier, you need to know if you need to know, things can change and be better if they're changed. I tried to tell people, come in with an open mind. Let's have fun is having in mind, you know, that's, what's phone between the very way we all know we could be like, paul, you need change, and I think if we do, this might be cool he's not like all right, man cool like you know he's he's okay let's try that way and see if it sounds better and we'll include the same thing with me you know somebody's like you know if I'm stoked on something that tunnel whatever's in ways like man it's just not what you know but you know trying to stay positive my thing is there's a zone engineer I think you should always just stay positive and you know, you could always track both and just tried out I just try everything if you have time and budget and there's it's not crazy time consuming or you know difficult whoever just tried out and if it works the cool you know oftentimes people you know there's been tons of times like even dan like he would be doing a crazy baseline of like I don't know if that's gonna work that's crazy but I don't know the keyboard part and it comes out awesome and in the fine when I finally here that you know, I just I just I'm quiet I'm just like let let it go down and when I hear the final product of my old totally was awesome that makes the part you know and so you know, things like that happen all the time and and vice versa sometimes I'm thinking yeah I mean that's going to be really cool and it ended up like, you know what we need to change that or sometimes you go back you know, like the thought of the thing you thought you should have changed was right again so it's just being open minded and try to be stay positive with client get him to you know you know try to be open minded about your ideas you try to be open about their ideas and just try it always look that's where the benefits from pro tools and digital recording is not analog it's like you have infinite virtual tracks literally well, I guess up until your hard drive space work until you know but it's just you know you mean you could just keep trying different stuff and you know, ultimately like so there isn't as aspect and I won't like to commit to like said I don't if you notice I haven't been competent any tracks I don't do the whole hale is track five takes of that or ten takes of that and we'll go through later and pick out the best takes I don't like that a super time consuming and it's is like, you know, it's just opening for disaster because what if you took take ten takes and there's not a perfect take in there that happens a lot? I mean, I've had you know, I've worked on guitar leads for an entire eight hour day before and you know and it's like if we just took ten the first ten takes we still don't have the right take you know sometimes it takes one hundred takes you know for it to get the right part and so I'm just I'm like let's this track until it's right is either riders not and keep that to commit to that you know it's like you know if it's you decide later that that's still not good enough then redo it then but don't just like leave it up to another producer or ah you know hopefully tomorrow here differently or something like that you know it's just like if it's not right just don't keep it to try it again that's what one industry process a process that I really am not too keen on like I love tracking direct signals as a backup of stuff but you know, tracking backup takes just hope that the ones in there somewhere just tio leaving it to chance the only time maybe I could see doing that is if there's an actual producer that's hey this guy's gonna help us produce the record you're actually just engineering and we don't want you to make decisions for this other dude to make decisions but you're going to tracking the vocals so then ask the case I'd be like oh let's just do what she shakes and this guy's gonna choose because he can't be here that's definitely not the ideal situation ideally that guy should be there but that's a rare situation for me personally knew it looks good support um yeah on base likes it again mostly tones in the hands and the pickups and stuff if you want the war type of base tone, you need to use a walk, their tone, their scale there pick up sound different than other base pickups I've been in to see even more noticeable with base and say guitar I think um ah but you know these ah, you know, I noticed the it seems like if you just start flat it's like if you don't know what kind of based home you want whatever or the space we've never recorded space the first time we couldn't hear this base I'm sure is going to sound great but almost art flat because the cool thing is that you can like said you can e q base and stuff like that stuff it's not distorted and things like that to meet this excellent being driven based home but you can actually e q in the in the final product with the base to get to get the blend and mix where you want to be with the guitars and drums and so forth so these things are designed to sound optimum optimum is like the factory okay, this is the best setting and you can tweak it if you want you know we'll start it flattened and same thing with the head they will see way need to go with I've got it on standby right now, so make sure. And again with the base I tracked direct signals will exams for if I do am semi tractor direction, you know, and the amps him fifteen take a stand by off hopefully don't blow people heads off. It is an paige sbt or whatever it's an industry stand like say, for reasons is the tube head. I've got the actual sbt three pro, which is a solid state version, very similar sound, whatever, I'd actually like to have this version with solid state does have kind of a tighter bottom in wait here with me here on my you doing similar stuff, you on the base, I've got quite a bit of the highs just rolled off. I've got super lows kind of chilled out to make room for the kick drum book and that's where the kick drum low in lives in this area, I've got some low in content in there, you know? Sometimes people will make a little gipp to make space uh, yeah basis and killer already thiss particular, song way went with a little drive on the base I'm actually using this is a guitar pedal, it has got a compressor and it actually sounds good for base I have the base version of this normally use a base specific compressor but I think this will work good for this particular purpose usually because of base and like clean guitar all we use up uh you know, if there's no drive all use a compressor this particular tones as we use and drive the drive actually acts is the compressor you know to achieve overdrive you know it pushes the tone against the filling a threshold this would cause the distortion break up and so it compresses the signal so I'm actually going to run it off for right now I'll leave it normally I would unplug this not have it in the loop so that you know because why did you know lower the tone, quality or whatever but go ahead play room what's unique about this clearly modified to screamers that the this thing does it cut that much lows flavor like the original two screamer yeah, I know you probably if you've never missed with a regular guitar pedal a distortion pedal overdrive it'll actually what you engage in it cuts a significant and lows and it's good for guitar because it cleans up the lows a lot before the base you want to keep those lows like said I'm according to direct signal but this is actually modified to wear it only affects the frequencies I think it's maybe three fifty and up you know it has it has ah boost and cut ik iwas, but it leaves the lows alone, which is great. So this you actually is really usable for base or guitar or low tune guitar for that man just to refresh my memory, let me I wanna hear original based, probably similar enough. I think we had some other drives and so oh, you know, I just think this will be a practice run let me know about levels and stuff let's base e can't things are so crazy? I guess this is probably about his clothes and fine, yeah, I could turn this thing down. They didn't have to be that well, it's right up here a lot of times is there's a notion with guitar and bass is like to get the good tone you have to crank it, and that started back in the day back with the old marshals where you get extra distortion when ukraine, because they didn't have a lot of pre a distortion, is not necessarily the case now, I don't think you know, I think most answered modern answer designed to sound their best with keep up in a acoustic drum level. I think they're designed, you know, for the high watt amps anyway, to sound maximum that you know, if you push it harder than that, you get a little more get more to sneer and break up so it's that you get up like, I guess, a softer list if line tone, which could be ideal, but a lot times for if you want a tighter tone, a more defined sound turn into downs actually ideal, we're going, he was dropping out here and got pretty good to do the focus right connection you can technically I mean, we copy paste what we was for this minute and a half is literally that reform over, I think it's more just showing how he got the tune yeah, let's, just go and scratch it. And just even with the digital glitches that pace those out and, uh, we just don't worry about it, we should probably all had to do is use this for those of you at home, whatever to deal with digital glitches, religious means basic kind of reboot this restart likely I think the focus right has a digital clock that sinking with pro tools and it's probably gotten out of sync or whatever, but I don't know if there's a master clock on this set up or whatever, thank you, rock it cool, yeah but it's it's a fact like sitting justices establishes a nice groovy foundation you know, it works for the song to build the songs yeah yeah we got a couple questions and then uh we've got another full day tomorrow so it's going to be we've got a lot to cover. Um cyrus wants to know how do you think or what do you think about amp emulators like qatar reagan amplitude they're great you might know undo the bass. Oh, I'm sorry did you can can you hit stand by for me, please? I got, uh yeah, they're great like said I mean, I I personally prefer ants like said you know is ah um many people say, like said, I just feel like, answer more three dimensional sound and they just sound more lively assuming yeah, like said the stephen it's, whatever you know, it feels like the amps come out of the speakers as opposed to sit in a plane, uses the the process stuff or the process or based stuff whatever. It kind of has list this it's hard to describe to me if it's, but to me it sounds like a kind of us starchy type of sound, you know, talking about the new there's new like the camper units and new axe effects like two and beyond there getting it to the point where it's so they sound really natural, but having said that, some people like a kind of an unnatural sound, you know, like making a film on the music and the music like dimebag darrell, he used a solid state and most people would. I think a solid states aren't good said he got a great sound that were great for that, that band and, you know, and it did there was no tubes involved, you know, for the first albums and and it's kind of the same thing. Like I said to me, like, the ant modelers should be looked at, you know, the the amp sims so should be looked at as a whole different thing. It's, just a different way t take the electric guitar signal and manipulated, and, you know, you can get close to relapse sounds if you want, but you can also get radical, like, way more defined sounds, and you can possibly get what two bands to babs has a certain samir it's kind of tell if you've got a kind of fight to get a two bit after sound clearing to find, um, makes or whatever and, uh well, some of the two vamps and, you know the thing, the solid state emulation or the, you know, the the am simulation versions they actually tend to sound more to have a kind of same cue in the same bigness but more defined so it actually could be better in some situations. So it's just really of whatever you like whatever works whether well with the music totally mountain stream wants to know would you record different or would you record differently plane different styles so basically there's different styles you get is that the approach that you take gonna be different slightly like said what I'm going over today it is primarily kind of iraq and kind of touching on middle. Obviously this is a war rock song with tommy's doing but yeah, of course, like five recorded the jazz band or like a bluegrass quartet or something like that it's a completely different approach. You know, you tracked the guys playing together, you know, you put one drum mike over the drums for jazz band, you might be other guys, you know, sometimes you just like, you know, with a bluegrass band, you take a stereo mike's or a couple solo mike's stuff and just might guys all playing together, you know, and so there's differences with different styles or whatever, but for most rock and most commercial based stuff stuff you could be layered I mean, going to be a similar approach, just different different tunings different trump hits elections, different amps, tones, ever guitars things like that or whatever that they're more program for that style and it is a lot of that's kind of a known thing just look at your favorite artists you know or look at the artist is doing the stuff that you want, you're kind of get ready records see if they're using and then it kind of give you good idea of like what? You probably should try first call not saying that you can't get the similar sounds or great sounds with other stuff, but you won't use a guitar with the mg and try to get like a clean jazz sound it's just that they're not built for that you know it's ah, you know if you want a clean jazz sound using these three thirty five makes sense our rick wants to know tommy, do you always track guitars with effects or dry and that effects later so when we normally put a fix on there's ah there's like a there's a two tier things with you we often at you put you put a fix, but it is in part a lot yeah, because a fixed you know I did have him was going to mention that the effects sound different like if you put, um delay on post to the amped signal as a kind of a different sound it's kind of more of a digital a you know that's that's that's still you know, adding an echo to the distorted signal if you put a delay pedal in front of the ant that echoes the guitar single so the actual distortion decreases as the level that goes down and that doesn't happen so they sound different and like you know, sometimes I'll use both you know both like a bird going in and over because they just sound I've noticed like that to me it's kind of like it's kind of a warmer more of energy sand when he was like a river going in or uh when you use you know a pedal for some reason this has kind of more vintage down because all those affects get distorted especially particularly for using a over driver distorted sound all those the effects get distorted and then like you but if you use a regular amp and added stuff in a computer then basically it's adding a fix to the already distorted sales so the effect himself doesn't actually get stored it if that makes any sense eso it just really depends on the sound okay like the both khun sound good it's just a matter of experience doing to me is like you know, with tommy situation being more like an organic rock type of thing we we just wait for the pedal type approach kind of that energy kind of you know classic you know the classic rock and through the nineties you grunge I mean they're all about petals start with with demoing I kind of I tried to find sort of effect that I want and I just record the rift and then from there I'll tweak whatever fix after the fact tio basically billy jane is kind of what I'm going for but yeah, so that's how I approach on them there's been situations where you've had a fakes that you've actually come up with and logic and then we just we just like, dude, I can't find anything and pro tools or this put xfx like he's just going to take forever to try to find something to matches it's a vocal like if there's what like a weird like a crazy sometimes there's like the fix in on a particular pro again or particular piece of gear that just you cannot get with something else and sometimes you just have to use whatever that is how much how might have a crazy that atika particular piece of gear and you know and how you know you're like, hey this speech like years actually technically better but you can't get that sound so you know if it's a like a digit iq you know r p ten or something that's the only way you could get that sound you have to use it, you know

Class Materials

bonus material with purchase

Jamie King - Tommy Rogers - Gear List.pdf
Jamie King - Tracking Template.ptf

bonus material with enrollment

Tommy Rogers and Jamie King - Syllabus.pdf

Ratings and Reviews

Zachary Towne

Thanks for two outstanding sessions. Tommy, Jamie and the Creative Live folks really did a great job elucidating the studio recording process for producing honest, listenable, and powerful rock and metal recordings. I particularly appreciated the individual treatment of each instrument as well as how they all integrate into the mix. I found Jamie's methods to be straightforward and effective and I'm really looking forward to applying that to my own production.

a Creativelive Student

Another well done class from Creativelive. A glimpse into the daily life of a pro musician and pro engineer. Some great advice, tips and tricks that anyone can use to make better music. Was hoping they would get more into the business side of things, they did briefly discuss it towards the end, however a more detailed, longer discussion on the topic would have been good. You do learn some cool ways to record and mix. Some of these are obvious, some not so much. I am sure that for most people you will get something of value from this class.


This was an awesome 1st half of the course! Jamie touched on so many things that I've always had questions about in the production environment. I can't wait for the second day! This course is a MUST HAVE!! I will be purchasing it soon!! Many thanks for the Livestream!

Student Work