Adjusting Your Prices to Work for YOU
All right, I'm gonna bring Tiffany up, and we're actually gonna do this so you can see it, instead of me just pointing at things. Okay, so, Tiffany, come on up. (audience applauds) This should be interesting.
Well, yeah. Product, price, number, dollar, cost, revenue. All right.
I kinda wish I could look at my stats, to...
Well, yes, this is, obviously, we're not doing this, it's not exact.
We got a calculator.
And we have a calculator. (Tiffany laughs) Exactly.
So tell me about, let's do three different products.
So what is one line, item, product, that you have? Like, how did you set up your business model?
When I wrote, separate, I didn't separate it out by item, I separated it out by difficulty. So, kind of my midline, my minimalist collection. And then I separated out by more of my, mid-level, more of the metal smithing work. A little pricier, and then custom.
Custom, that works, let's do it this way. So what we have here is minimal cost, and labor...
, and design cost. We have mid-level stuff, so things that are being metal-smithed, things that take some skill, but they're still production.
Yeah. And then we have custom, things that, you need to design the piece, then you make the piece, then you sell the piece, or, you sell it first, in this case, but whatever. (Tiffany laughs) This is a good way for you to break this down. This is great, okay. So what is the average price for a piece at the bottom end of your, of your model here?
So, I would say, well, I would say, the piece that I sell the most... We can take these hoops, because it falls into that category, is, they're like $27.
27. And this is just, we're going to use this as an example and you can also use this as just an average, okay, because it's going to help you get to that same number at the end, that's, does this make sense, or not? Right?
Yeah. All right, so $27, how many do you want to sell in a month?
See, and I'm comfortable with the number I'm selling now, I just don't have any idea what that is. So let's, let's throw, let's say 260.
260. All right, so $27 times 260 is what?
$7020. And how much does it cost you to produce 260 of those pieces?
So, $13 per.
So, $13 times 260... And that includes your labor?
It's including my labor.
$3380. So, $7020 minus $3380?
See, my profit's pretty good on these, actually. (laughs) Which makes it, minus...
Yeah, so $7020, minus $3380, sorry. (laughs)
Is the price your wholesale?
No, that's my retail.
That's your retail?
So that's the problem, right? Because at wholesale...
Wholesale, yeah, it's half. You don't have any money left over.
So that's the problem. So these really need to be, what is that, $54? Yes, I did that math right. (laughs) So, what just happened here is that, especially with Robin's finely tuned jewelry eye, we realized Tiffany is selling these pieces at $27 a piece. Her goal is to sell 260 a month, that works out to $7020 in gross revenue, on this piece alone, per month. $3380 is her cost to sell that amount, which works out to $3640 of net revenue. Now, this does not include a kind of overall business cost, necessarily, although you may work that into your pricing formula. But, generally, this is still, this is net revenue, but it's not your final product, necessarily.
Right. Okay. So, what we realized here is that this number is eerily close to this number. So, Robin asked, very astutely, is this, is this a retail number, or is this a wholesale number? This is her retail number, which means, to sell it to a wholesaler, she needs to sell it for about $14, $13.50. So, $13.50...
So, my cost is figuring in my labor.
Okay, we're still saying, okay. 'Cause I'm like, I'm still paying myself, but I'm not making any profit.
That's a problem.
That's what's happening, I'm not factoring in profit, and that's what, yeah.
Labor does not equal profit.
I'm not making any, I'm paying myself...
Labor does not equal profit, labor does not equal profit.
So I pay myself, but I'm not pro-- Yeah, which is why I'm constantly in my hamster wheel.
And why you can't pay someone else to make them. Because you'd have $250!
And this is what other people charge, and that's what they're selling my product for. (laughs)
Exactly, so we know, experiment time, we know that this product actually sells at this price.
That's actually shocking, because when I did the math, I'm like, oh, I'm looking pretty good. I'm looking like I'm making like $100 an hour, billable hours, but at the end of the day, I am not, 'cause I'm not...
If you can't make this kind of piece without paying someone else to do that, remember, we talked about that in day one. Does your price include other people's labor? Especially for a business like yours. You need to consider one to one. The only money you should be counting on is profit.
With this kind of piece.
Because the thing is, is, I have three other sites that want to sell my jewelry, but I can't set it up, because I can't make any more.
And so this is why you are living, essentially, what is a paycheck to paycheck life, right? All right, let's do this line.
So what's your average price in the mid-level of your line?
So, not much more, like $55. This one's probably gonna be really bad. I didn't write it all down.
What's the number goal? Pull this out of your head, if you'd like.
It takes a little bit longer. So, I mean, I would definitely say, let's say 100 mid-level pieces a month.
100 mid-level pieces, okay. Well, that's easy, that makes my life easy, that's $5500.
What's rounded numbers?
What's the cost?
So... 'Cause I'm not factoring in, I mean, material-wise, between $8 to $10, but then I want to pay myself $100 an hour, and they usually take like 20 minutes to...
Okay, so that's about $33.
Yeah, yeah. These aren't gonna work at all, they're horrible. I already knew this.
It costs about $33 per? Yeah, and then if I start stone-setting things...
Let's not even go there, this is beautiful enough, right? So that works out to $2200, right?
Which means, that if you sell this at wholesale, you're in the hole!
And so I'm so terrified of that midline, because I'm trying to match that minimum, I'm trying not to throw it all over the place.
So if you raised the price to $54, on your mid-level stuff, could you raise the price to $110? I'm sorry, on your low-end stuff, if you were to double the price to $54, could you raise the price to $110 on your mid-level stuff?
That's what other people would sell it for.
Oh, okay, good to know!
So your earrings you were wearing yesterday...
What does Megan retail those for?
Do you wanna know what they cost?
I already know, 'cause they're...
They cost about $1.50.
And so, the hoops, I have a mind for. I'm just using a product that I have in mind, are bigger and thicker, so more metal, so like eight dollars. So they could easily go for $110.
Easily. Let's not even keep going with this, because you get the idea this doesn't work.
Yeah. See, these are scary numbers to me, though, because I am so afraid to price out...
When you price out, you price other people in, right? So who are you pricing in, when you... Let's talk about this, now, 'cause we're gonna, we're gonna go through what you need to do, if you need to adjust, but I wanna talk about, specifically adjusting your customer, here. What did you say to me earlier? The women who are, or, the companies who are selling these earrings at this price, have celebrities in their clientele, right?
Yeah. So who are you pricing in?
And then you're pricing in somebody that can go get you your celebrities. (laughs)
I don't know how to get my jewelry on those clients, but these women, these people do.
They have different knowledge than I have.
They have PR agents, they have sales directors. Robin can tell us all about, more about this. But still, when we were talking about growth activities, these are the growth activities you need to be investing in, in your business model. But you can't do that for these bottom lines.
Which is why I'm having such a hard time. I mean, yeah, piece by piece, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can hire a graphic designer this week.
Exactly, so let's talk about marketing channels for this now, so this is your customer, obviously, celebrities, professionals.
Which I don't really see on my mainstream, because my biggest thing is, these women are like, "I can wear this to the office, "I wear it absolutely every day, I love them. "They're my favorite go-to earrings, "they go with everything," so that's my clientele.
Right, so, how do you, marketing channel-wise, distribution channel-wise, forget the PR agents, and the sales directors, how do you get jewelry at this cost to these people? You get them in boutiques.
Yeah. Which means, you have to wholesale. So, now, just running these numbers, messy as though it may be, we've identified, you need to shift your client base. You need to invest in these growth activities, and you need to switch marketing channels, and distribution channels, so that you can get your jewelry in the stores that will get, that will make this happen, and will actually help with this, too. Because a lot of these boutiques have PR agents. Or they're investing, they're investing, some way, in PR, they're sending out press releases. You know, they're being featured in magazines. So you get the ripple effects, of all of that. This is why you have to run numbers, because numbers tell you all these other details.
Also, see, I think I've been looking at it all wrong.
Okay, tell us.
I'm looking at online retail sales, because I'm like, oh yay, I don't get to keep all the money. But I get to keep, you know, a good portion of the money. Whereas, I have to pay half for that. But, what I was never thinking of, is that really solves, so I'm like, oh, maybe I don't want to do wholesale, right? But this really solves taking me out of that online hamster wheel, because that's why I'm scared to price, because I'm online, and everybody and their brother is online, and you can click the same item, for right there. So what I really needed to be focusing on, was the higher prices, that, which reduces my workload, which gives me everything I've ever asked for. I just needed to flip that completely.
And I'm still making the same amount of money.
I hope everyone just heard that.
For less work.
Karina is saying, "As a maker, "I've found this hugely helpful. "Tiffany, thank you so much for being "the example here, so many people "are resonating with this, so thank you."
Mary says, "Loved the exercise, "definitely a light bulb moment."
Wonderful, wonderful. Robin, did you have something else?
Wholesale isn't for everybody, so, you don't have to feel like you have to do it. But you should trust in your, clearly, you have a following. And to trust that, because you can charge the $ on your website, and don't be afraid of it. So, you're worth it, your designs are worth it.
And a point to that, too, if you're going to wholesale, which, I totally agree with Robin. But if you are going to wholesale, and I think that you have a great, you have the potential to really do well with it, you have to charge this on your website. You don't get a choice.
No, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which means, every time you make a sale on your retail website, now you get, what is it, three times as much money.
(laughs) Yeah, I can actually build my business, weird.
Then I just pay my bills every month, how cool is that?
Exactly, exactly. All right, Tiffany, any further questions?
No, that was good, thank you.
You're welcome, let's give her a big round of applause. (audience applauds)
All right, so, what if you find yourself in the situation that Tiffany has just found herself? What if you add up all of the numbers, and they don't make your revenue goal? What if they don't make sense? There's things we can adjust, all right, there's things we can adjust. One, how could you bump your sales and marketing channels to produce better results? With Tiffany, we identified sales channels, distribution channels, that could greatly affect her bottom line, in a positive way, if she's also willing to adjust the price. We also found, these growth activities are also sales and marketing related. So, when, in terms of how you've been thinking about your marketing and sales, what we did in the last segment, what have you been thinking about that maybe you could bump, and I'm using bump as kind of like a, you know, give it a good solid kick. How could you get it to work harder for you? Maybe you need to make a "wholesale change," like Tiffany does, but maybe you just need to amp it up, kick it up, get it going harder, faster, make it work more for you. Where does your brain go there? What kind of ideas does that spark? There's room in your workbook for this, as well, now we're on page 38. So, if you've got ideas, and I think, in this type of environment, they come fast and furious, I would highly recommend writing them down. (laughs) All right. Could you position a product differently, to raise the price? Could you position a product differently, to raise the price? It's very much, again, what we were just talking about with Tiffany, when you get, your jewelry, or when you get any product, in a higher-end environment, like a downtown boutique, or a high-end department store. That's a really big shift in positioning. It's a shift in positioning that's paid you, and it gives you this ability to say, "Well, you can find my jewelry, "you can find my product in X brand, Y brand, and Z brand." Now, those brands help to tell a part of your story. What other brands could you use to help tell your story? Now, that's only one way you could shift your positioning. Could you shift your positioning by talking more about your decades of experience? Could you shift your positioning by talking about the challenges that you've faced with your own personal story? Could you shift your positioning by talking more about your education? Could you shift your positioning by talking about your only-ness, your special something, that unique set of skills, and talents, and interests, and the way you work best, that really makes you unique? They're all different ways you can shift your positioning, and most of them result in an ability to raise your price. Because your product or service suddenly becomes more unique, people think of it in a different way. There's more opportunities in front of you. So you can raise the price. Could you format a product differently, to raise the price? Could you take that ebook that you were thinking about writing, and, instead, do a high-end coaching program? That might serve you better, in your business, right now. So, you know, yesterday, we talked in segment four, about all of the different ways you can format something. What could something look like? Go back to your business model, and if you don't feel comfortable pricing a particular piece of value, because of the format you've chosen, in a way that it works out in your favor, consider changing the format, consider making that solution look a little different. All right, and this brings us back, oh, Tiffany was such a great example. Would a different customer segment be willing to pay more? Is there a different customer segment that's willing to pay more? Absolutely, they're the kind of customers that shop at the downtown boutiques. They're maybe not shopping online for jewelry. These are the customers that want to touch, and feel, and try on first, they're the customers that want to go in, and have the clerk, the shop clerk, say, "I got this new product, "it's going to look great on you, "you absolutely must try it." Let me tell a story about these pants. I went shopping on Northwest 23rd, in Portland, before I left for San Francisco, because I realized my wardrobe was a little thin for being onstage for three days. And I go into this cute shop called Sloane. And, um, rack upon rack, upon rack, of super cute clothes. And I am not very at home in shops full of super cute clothes. So I'm going through the racks, and I think, I've picked out two things, that I was like, okay, I think these would maybe solve my problems. And the girl that helped me took them and put them in a room, and I kept shopping for a little, and right before I was about to go in the fitting room to try those two things on, she said, "I'm gonna pull a couple of other pieces for you." Now, yes, was this a sales technique? Absolutely, did I love it, yes. "So, let me pull in a couple other pieces for you. "Here's, this is the shirt that we just can't "keep talking about, this is the shirt "we're all wearing, and we all love it." You know what shirt it was? It was the white shirt I wore on day one. And then, she also said, "Let me pull these black pants "for you, these black pants are amazing." They're these black pants, they're amazing. All right? So that was a service to me. So, suddenly, this shop is not just some place to shop, like an online store is, very often, but it's a place where I'm going to get extra service, where I'm gonna be told, where your product is gonna be put in my hand, and I'm gonna buy it. (laughs) All right? It's a very different kind of customer, it's a very different kind of marketing channel, it's a very different sales process. And no matter what kind of product or service you're offering, you can make those adjustments. You can say, who else could buy this? How else could I deliver this? Where else could this be sold? How else could I get people aware of this product? When you lay out your whole business model like that, you get to make those choices. Remember, crafting your business model is a constant experiment. We don't write this once, and then it gets set in stone. Do you remember the book, Business Model Generation, that I talked about yesterday? In that book, they recommend, they have a whole canvas that they do this on, it's very visual. So, for the visual people, to me, spreadsheets make sense, layers make sense. This thing is awesome, 'cause it's super visual. So for you guys that may be really helpful, to take a further look at it, you can find it online for free, too. So, anyhow, they've got this canvas. They recommend that you build your business model with post-it notes. Post-it notes! So, don't do it in pen, and expect that the pen is just gonna sit there forever, right? That's why the iPad app for this thing is so great, too, because everything is adjustable, everything's movable. Post-it notes! Anyhow, your business model is a constant experiment. Even when you get it right, you're gonna revisit it, every six months, every year, and you're gonna say, what could I do better? What could I do differently? How could I transform this into something more innovative? Have you ever heard of being Netflix-ed? Blockbuster got Netflix-ed. Blockbuster doesn't exist anymore, because they didn't constantly experiment with their business model. Netflix came along, and put them out of business. Don't let that be you, don't get Netflix-ed. All right, so these are tools that you can use, not only to jump from the microbusiness earning plateau, up to your revenue goal, but these are tools you can use to tweak your business, to keep your business in business, longer. Sound good? All right, so speaking of experiment. I want to pull up the scientific model, really fast, because I think this absolutely, the idea of the scientific method, absolutely pertains to your business model, as well. You want to be able to ask a question, of your business model. Are there any new customers I can serve? Is there a new marketing channel I could use? Is there a new distribution channel I could use? Is there a new growth activity I could use? Is there a new price that I could offer? Ask a question, use your own expertise, your own data, your own information, to form a hypothesis. Yes, I can start wholesaling if I raise my prices double. That's your hypothesis. And you conduct an experiment, you go to a trade show, and you stand there, with your jewelry, looking great, with these prices as your wholesale prices. And you say, are buyers gonna buy this? Are people interested, what's the feedback I'm getting? Once you've got that feedback, you can analyze it, and you can accept or reject your hypothesis, based on the data, all right? So you can say, do I wanna do another trade show? Do I wanna cold-call some boutiques, do I wanna stop by some local boutiques, and see if they're interested? You can just keep moving, with the experiment, as you're building data, make sense? Makes sense, makes sense, okay. Speaking of experiments, I want to know, what will you experiment next with in your business model? What do you want to experiment with next in your business model? Share in the chat rooms, share on Twitter, @TaraGentile, or #TaraLive. What will you experiment with next, in your business? What will you experiment with next in your business? How about from you guys? We know what Tiffany is gonna experiment with. (laughs) Susan.
Well, pricing my new line is my very first experiment.
Beautiful, I love it. Hopefully, I did it right, the first time, and then I just have to revisit it, in the future.
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. You feel like you've got the tools to do it right?
Okay, good, good. Bridget, what do you want to experiment with next, in your business?
I really want to create like a program/product, that people can just buy, that, I need to do a lot of market research, and figure out everything that we've talked about in this workshop, and then craft a program, that, like, based on answering all of those questions, around food, and eating, and cooking.
Great, so you're gonna start your experiment with some research?
And you're probably, you're actually probably going to need to know, you're gonna need to do some research to come up with a really well-informed question.
Not only can I sell an evergreen product, but what's the right topic for the evergreen product?
Exactly. What's the right value that I can deliver through this? Awesome. Somebody else, what are you gonna experiment with next? Sasha?
Well, there's a woman that I met recently who I think is the perfect candidate to explore coaching her about, a combination of dating, and just feeling more sensually alive. So I think I might explore, do you want to do this with me for free, and give me lots of feedback? And create from there.
Great, fantastic, love that!
What about answers from online?
Online, CreativeGina says, "Digital products "and ebooks, brands, as my experiment, "actually creating packages rather than always "doing one-off proposals, and custom work," which is interesting.
Love that, great idea!
Sophie Ory says, "I want to experiment with packaging "and branding in order to higher my prices," and LoveCheri says she wants to experiment with wholesaling. And Yara Munoz says group coaching, as well.
Riley, "My next experiment? "Actually creating a business model."
Yeah, that's a good one.
That's great, that's great, that's really really great. All right, so I want to be able to answer questions, if we have questions, but we also have time that I could hot seat another person. Where are we, let me take temperature, here. Do we have questions, or do we want to do another example?
I actually have a question.
So I think one of the biggest problems that I've noticed in business, and just working for other companies, is the stepping back, and one of the things that, you know, just working with people to step back, and look at their business. But I know, too, when I was working for a jewelry company, and we were on that grid, we were shooting up so fast, it was incredible, that we didn't really have time to step back and look, and, is it... I mean, I know it's recommended, and I try to get people to do it, every six months, every year, but how do you, it is one of the biggest things that people don't do. It's probably one of the biggest challenges, to get people to look at their businesses, even when they're just starting out, and what Tiffany said, just trying to keep in business.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, so, one thing is, a lot of businesses have natural cycles of up and down. So, product-based businesses tend to sell more at the holidays, and then tend to have a lull period, in say, February, March. So, February, March, is a great time to plan some pull-out time, where we're gonna step back, maybe you take a little trip. You put yourself up at a nice hotel for a couple nights, and you figure this out, or you at least take a look. You gather all of that information that you need to gather, and you take a look. I also am very reticent about ever allowing people to use the excuse of "I don't have enough time" for very very important things. If you don't have enough time, it should be a fundamental indication that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. And I understand, that's very easy for me to say, standing where I am right now, and, that, in your own business, it can be stressful, it can be damn near impossible. But I think it's really important to recognize that you not having time is an indicator of a much bigger problem, and that you're gonna be out of business instead of out of time if you don't step back and take a look at it. So, you know, if that means you need to put the shop on hiatus, if it means you need to not take that next trip, if it means you need to hire someone before you were really comfortable hiring someone. You do what you need to do to be able to be in control of your business. Because so many times, when you're on that upward trajectory, you are not in control of your business, your business is in control of you. And you need to make a choice, to get back in the CEO office, back in the driver's seat, and get control of your business. So that's my non-answer to your answer. But I think paying attention to the cycles of your business is really important. For instance, most often when I'm doing it, it's either... (laughs) This is funny, but I'm really bad at just sitting down and planning, and so, I often end up getting this kind of work done on airplanes, or buses. So I'll be traveling, and that's when these things, I can't go anywhere else, I can't do it anywhere else, that's where ideas start to hit me. And that's when I start re-figuring. I'll pull out numbers, I'll draw out plans, they end up in Evernote files, or napkins, or the backs of conference paraphernalia. But that'll happen a lot, the other time I do it a lot is during the summer. I, for the last four years, have pretty much taken summers off, or way pulled back on my schedule. And so summers, when everyone else is, they're not wanting to work on their businesses right then, they're at the pool with their kids, they're on vacation, whatever, that's my opportunity to, as well as doing those other things, sit down and plan out, and get some distance. Where I'm not, because I have the problem of also always being in the trenches with your businesses as well, right, so not only can I be in the trenches of my business, but I can be in the trenches of your business. And summer is a time where I'm not in the trenches of your businesses. So I can pull back, I've got the mental bandwidth to be able to do that. So, pay attention to the natural cycles of your business, and there's probably someplace in there that you can plan, at least annual time, to take a look at it, really good question. Briana.
I had a question about the chart you were doing, the revenue column, 'cause right now, I have about 100 girls in the program, it's my first year, and they pay around $1000 for the whole year, so like $100000. The problem is, the costs are really high. So what's an ideal percentage that you want to have in the revenue column, for a service?
Really good question, and it really depends on the business. So, ideally, your percentage needs to be enough that it's covering all your costs, allowing you to invest in the future, which is also putting money in the bank. Or can be putting money in the bank. And paying you a good salary. So, yes, again, for your kind of business, where you have employees, or you have contractors, you have all of this overhead. That percentage is gonna be much, much, much smaller. Your profit, left over, because you're already paying your salary in the cost column, your profit left over may be 5%, it may be 20%, it may be really small. For a lot of the other businesses here, their income is actually that revenue column, or is some amalgamation of that revenue column. So that's why that column is such a much bigger percentage. Like my revenue column could be 75%, sometimes. Or more. So that's why you need to look at, yeah, you need to look at that differently than a lot of other people do. And so if you see weird examples, that's why. (laughs) Susan.
So, don't you, you're supposed to build into your cost, profit, and profit is used for future growth activities. So what do you do with the revenue, the net revenue? Is that for things you forgot to incorporate into the cost? For things just in case, or you just have it in the bank for your business? (laughs)
I mean, for your business, it could be, absolutely, your cost should include labor and profits.
Trade shows, fees.
Exactly, exactly. Which, ideally, that's being covered in cost, too. It may be more helpful, if you've got your cost formula, really nailed, where you're comfortable with the profit margin, you're comfortable with the labor fees, you're comfortable with the overhead fees, it may be more important for you to look at this sales goal, to figure out your big revenue goal, than that last revenue column. Make sense?
Mm-hmm. So, again, you've got a different kind of business, just like Briana has a different kind of business. We can tweak this a little bit, and so it might actually be this dollar sales goal that matters more to you than the cost. Than after cost, cool? Questions from online?
Taylor said, "Could Tara just give "another quick breakdown of how to consider pricing "the wholesale versus retail?"
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, we'll go back to the formula. Formula is materials, plus overhead, plus labor, plus profit, equals wholesale. Wholesale times two, generally, equals retail. So if you're not figuring your labor and profit in at wholesale, you start to get mixed up when it comes to selling wholesale. You won't be able to, you'll actually, like we've found with this number here, you would end up being in the hole, if you started selling wholesale. And just like Tiffany said, too, with wholesale, you don't want to think about it as giving away half of your sales, what you want to think about is wholesale being your bottom line. Wholesale is where you make the money. If you sell more at retail, that's a bonus. But wholesale is what you want to figure for. Because they get that extra 50% because of all of the things that they're doing for you. Because they help you reach new customers. Because they help you position differently. Because they're going to bring their own resources to bear in terms of public relations, and media, and salespeople. So that's why they get to tack on that extra 50%. So, you think about your wholesale as the bottom line, as the foundation, and then think about retail as a fun bonus! Anything else?
We've got, actually, two questions about packaging, that's come in.
Yeah, we're putting them together here. KayBae says, "Since someone mentioned packaging, "does Tara have thoughts about the package "influencing the price," along with, part two of this question, from Sophie Ory, "Would packaging be part of changing the format "in the makersphere, for example, like upgrading "the packaging and personalizing it?"
Okay, so I think there might actually be two things going on in those questions. I think one might be physical packaging, and the other is packaging of services. So, how you physically package something absolutely can change how you position it, and how people value it, which is, absolutely related to how you package a particular service, because when you package up a service, what you really want to focus on is value. I like to think about packages in terms of bullet points. What are the three bullet points I'm going to deliver in this package? So, you know, maybe, with Bridget and her changing eating habits service package. You get, you'll feel more confident about the meals that you're creating, and the food that you're eating, you'll be able to do it in less time than you do now. And you'll wake up feeling like you have more energy without having to rely on coffee. So those are three value propositions, three deliverables, almost, but they're focused on the customer's perspective. What a package is not is, you get one startup session with me, and then three weeks of email support, and this workbook. Well, that absolutely can help you tell the story of a product, and it needs to be included. Those are features, they're not benefits, it's not value. What's valuable to you is not the Skype session. It's how you feel when the Skype session is over. It's the information you have at the end of that Skype session, so when you're packaging a service, and you want to really think about the price. What is this worth, what's the value of this? Think about what the actual deliverables are from the customer's perspective.