Old School Photography + Other Musings with Kai Wong
Hey buddy, what's up Chase! Welcome to another episode of the show. Very excited about today's guest. If you have been following me for any number of years, then you will not have forgotten an episode where I was given a lego camera and forced to make amazing pictures around the city of Hong kong. That invitation came from Kaiman wang legendary Youtuber, dear dear friend who has a bunch of new announcements, he's sharing the first time here with us on the show. I cannot wait for you to see this episode. Sky is hilarious, humble. He's got a new book, a new Youtube channel and get so much stuff cooking. Uh and we also get to take a walk down memory Lane memory Lane with respect to favorite cameras, favorite lenses. So if your camera nerd, this episode is going to be for you. Mhm, mm hmm. Yeah, no, hi wang is back in the house man, Thank you so much for being on the show. Welcome Welcome back. I don't know if I can say welcome back, because you have been on the show before, but we've done...
a lot of stuff together. So it's good to be in your presence. My good man, thank you for having me. I'm honored to be on your show. Come on. This has been a reunion, long in the making. And hopefully right now we've got a, I mean every time the word chi is in my feed or there's something about an old camera or if I take a picture, if there was a picture in any social feed with me holding a camera and it's not that little lego camera that you gave me in, Hong kong, you know, whatever 10 years ago, I get a rash of shit for it. And about 200 questions in the comments, where's Kai? And how about that lego camera, L. L. L. Or whatever? Um you still get stopped on the street and the people still say, oh yeah, digital all the time and you probably adjusting now. But you know, I would say within the last week I was stopped and asked about uh photography in general and then they said that they first saw me on digital reb and that was like literally a decade ago. So again, your question may be facetious, but you know, that's a weekly occurrence for me. That's how that's how impactful that show that you made was. And it was, I had a blast. I'll never forget it. No, that was that was a fantastic episode, wasn't it? Where we got you to do some really silly things in Hong kong. Yes, you did, yes, you did. And for those who don't know what we're talking about here and you know, Kai is a legendary Youtuber started the, the digital rev universe, which is a shop in Hong kong started making amazing videos and we, I was his guest on his show um where in fact, as you just mentioned, we got to do all this stuff. And if you haven't seen it, if you're one of the folks who are listening to the show and haven't, I would just suggest google my name or keys name and lego camera and you will be entertained. It's nine minutes of, of entertainment. Um, and I, you know, I'd like to go back a little bit for the folks who are new to your world um in case people have been living under Iraq because you've been making amazing videos, you know, roughly a million subs on Youtube. You got a new book coming out that I want to talk about. But just to orient folks who may be new to your work, take us back to the way back and what got you interested in photography and on Youtube. And uh, and then where you are now, what you're doing. Give us a little orientation. Yeah. I mean, I started learning photography at the university, studied film and media and start learning uh, okay. I originally started learning photography because it was the easiest module in it. As part of the course. It meant that I could have Thursdays as a, as a kind of lion I could sleep in because the teacher never actually ran any lessons. You just said he would do a project and go away. I don't want to see your face for the rest of the term. And that was it. That was, that was my, my photography lessons. Um, it scarred me. No. Yeah. I mean, that was when I start getting a new student photography and then, um, I was very lucky to do digital because I started martin and inside experimenting Youtube videos, marketing. And then I changed destroyed because I was interested in photography and I wanted to combine Youtube and photography and there's many people doing at the time. So it's quiet. Yeah. Well, yeah. And go go one level deeper for people who don't know what digital rev is. And I don't know, you guys used to make a video what like three a week or something like that. And again, this is early on when people weren't doing that. And you built the channel up and give us a little more color there. And and then transition us from you departing that channel because it wasn't something that you owned. It was an audience that you were cultivating on behalf of somebody else and moved over to your own world. So chronicle a little bit more history. There, go one layer deeper and then what you're doing today. And when I started a digital rev, there was no Preston really. There's no, no, there's no other channels to just copy of them. Of course, there are things that we like watching on tv and that was probably the easiest way to think about. Where do we want to take a channel. So was that like top, Top? Yeah, for sure. Because there were some photography channels at that time, they were unboxing and it's very straightforward and I think photography was quite and there still is a bit a bit geeky and we wanted it to be entertaining channel about photography. So it's entertainment with a bit photography foaming. And then, yeah, I did a few years of that and I decided, you know what I want to be created, the best way to be creative is to go solo. I thought, and that's why I went so long. Did my own thing, didn't have to answer to a boss or make a a certain number of videos on a certain day. Is that what you mean by by creative? Is it more about freedom? When we first started this web tv? Of of course, we were kind of given free reign of everything. We could do almost anything we wanted. But as time went on, we kind of obviously have to please your boss. So it started, you start having like creative differences and I have ideas that I want to do and things that have an experiment with. So, but the only way really is to just leave the kind of corporate environment. So now that was, that was all Hong kong based. Now you're in the UK. Um and for the folks who again, who haven't been following her every move, you know, have kids, you have a new house, you've got a new vision for your uh footprint on Youtube. I just called the internet. Give me, give me give me some more here. You're making me uh dig for this. I want you to tell me a story about your your current status because you're in the UK and have been for a few years which is obviously different than Hong kong and uh became a family man. You like you've taken a little time away and now you're back and bigger than ever with new channel and new new book and whatnot. So what gives man, that's a major shift in basically every area of life when when I went solo, that was just immediately after having my first kids and you know, that changes things, that something perspective and everything ends up being for them and you want to do things you wanna, you wanna challenge yourself and um you know, I start to work so I did a collaboration with nat Geo that is great and traveling and how we would take take it would take him on the road and we explore places together and they, it was great to see all these different countries now. It's a little bit differently too. It's a bit more difficult, especially as the oldest is now in school, but of course I want to do as much as I can, wow. Um, this, this, this boy is still a bit of a spring chicken, you know, it's still a bit of life left in me, so I might as well spend all that energy doing some stuff. So yeah, I've been doing the book, this is this a new direction. Um, and then as I said, a new direction. Um okay, it's a vague plan. The locks here. We want to make new videos with the old dynamic duo. Yeah. And he's naming his essentially as co host, but ostensibly the the filmer as if you were the host of digital rev. I mean obviously lock had a mhm appearance and lots of them, but so he's moving back to the UK and getting the band back together. Can you promise us anything? Because again, fans are hanging on your every word right now and I'm sure this episode is gonna be very popular, especially amongst the camera photo universe that we both, you know how to put in for a decade or two. So, you know, nothing else. You can't you can't tease that. You can't give us more. Come on, let's just what are you doing? What's the what's the band back together is one thing, But tell us more. Yeah, I mean, let's let's just say we're going to be doing similar, well, we're going to take the old formula and work on that because and then when I'm when I'm shooting by myself, when I'm vlogging, there's so many things that you can't do. I mean, I've got a whole load of ideas that have been keeping and the ideas bank and it's kind of difficult to or it's a bit silly to do by yourself when you when you film yourself in the field, it doesn't make sense to film that. Um So yeah, I mean that's what Locke is here for. He's here to film that for me and you know, we'll have that comic interaction between us again. Um so yeah, I think there's certain things that we might not be able to touch on because obviously we did that for digital Evan, you know, that's uh either we don't want to touch on that because that's, that's old news. Uh, it'll be boring to just tread on the same ground or it would be, I don't know, the court case now, But yeah, we want a bigger ideas, big ideas. We're going to start off, Is that going to be on your channel for the Youtubers out there? That's just yeah, Youtube slash Kaiman wang. Right. I mean, it's not going to be straight away straight in the deep end. We're going to start looking like his look is busy a minute figuring out where to live. I can't have him full time working on this right now. So I'm just figuring out, we're just figuring out, you know, where to get the time, and it's one how to fund it as well, that, you know, minor issues issues. The main thing is that we've got the ideas and when, when you work with somebody for so long and you kind of just, it doesn't take long to explain an idea. You just, you can, you can just talk about them, they're just just clicks and that's the great thing about having lock here, making videos together, meet again. Well, I'm excited to see what you guys can create and again, the world, is it, is it going to be at your channel at Kaiman wang on youtube? Yes, it's going to be on my channel. We don't have another separate channel, but we're going to use that a second additional channel of a fucking stuff, which is less interesting on got it. Alright, then, we're going to move to the book because I don't think of you much as a writer, but I do think of you as an absolute wizard with a camera and and the book is about film photography, which I thought was awesome. Uh and again, one of the things that I would encourage this audience to do, those who are listening and watching right now, um, the best thing we can do to support the people on the show is to buy their book, especially between now announcing it where you can go, and it's actually on the internet and before that first week when it goes on sale. And so let's do chi a solid here and go pick up his book. It's an incredible book. I want to say, congratulations, old school photography things you must know to take fantastic film photos. And let's just say, you're not even into film photos, there are so many hilarious anecdotes that have everything to do with photography and less to do with film in particular. Of course, what I love about film is that there is an actual craft, like you can't below an exposure by two stops or three stops or five stops because you never get it back as you could in a digital ecosystem. But tell me about how the, so hey, everybody out there, like go check out the book. It's awesome. Um please pick up a copy and support kai and but my question to you, good sir is I don't think of you as a writer, what are you doing writing a book? I know I thought it was, I thought it was spam. I thought was uh because when I first got an email from the publisher, they said would you like to write a book? And I was like, who would hear him are yanking my crank and they really fallen. I mean, okay, I've, I've written some stuff before, but I'm not a right. I never planned to write a book. I never thought, you know what, that is my lifetime ambition to write a book, but it just happened. And the first time they emailed me, I said, okay, um, yeah, sounds good. But then I didn't take it anyway, I didn't actually keep in contact with them. So they, I think it was a year later they email back and said, hey, we can be in the UK, would you like to meet up? Um would you still like to write a book? And I said, okay, let's meet up. And then we talked. Um, and that, that was essentially where the idea was born. I mean I had reservations about why film, film. I'm not really a writer. I never, I mean, even myself, I didn't think, okay, I'm my writing's fantastic turn out a book. Um, but it's a challenge and it's interesting to throw you, you know, chuck yourself into a challenge and and try new things. And, and this was very interesting year for me writing this book. So you can presumably do a book about anything if the publishers pursuing you as they were. And of all of the things under the sun and photography, why film photography in particular? Well, having started off learning film photography when I was back in Union and that was not through not because it was called anything, but it's just affordable back then. It was, you know, digital was super expensive. That was how you learned, it was believed that that was the mechanism to teach. Yeah, it was great. This is, it's surprising when you take the film and then you wait for it to be developed and then you get back and like, oh, or oh, it's either really, really stinking bad surprise or it's like, wow, that's fantastic. You get this physical thing, which is your fanta, but these days it's all digital when it's uh you know, everybody has got a digital camera and I think now people start to get back in the film photography and I think it's great, I thought would be great to give people a little bit because when I first started learning, there weren't many, all the learning manuals. All the books about how to take photos were kind of quite techie and quite dry. It was all about comprehending f stops and and all these geeks terminology and uh I hated that. I wanted a book that was just easy to understand because, you know, for me, photography is not about understanding all these technical aspects, it's just all the creativity is there in your head. You just need some inspiration to bring that out. And essentially, I just wanted to make a book which is, which is like that kind of virtually a bit of inspiration rather than, okay, you can't understand this, you've got to understand that rule of thirds and things like that. Hey, that so Babak is about hating traditional photography tutorials facebook. Alright, We're gonna play 10 questions. Okay, are you ready? First thing, don't overthink it. First thing that comes to mind, you've just written a book about film photography. Your favorite film is vell via. Ah I used to shoot landscapes so much when I was when I was learning photography and and that was my favorite film. I love the way when you take long exposures and it just get this nice magenta cast and it looks gorgeous when you get those slides through the light on the light table and it just looks absolutely lush. Just, You know, those folks who were born after 19 and for those who were born after, what would that be in 1980 or something, 1990 Velvet is a 50 speed film from fuji. It's a slide film known for its saturated colors, but in blue, blue hour with that film is just absolutely insane. Okay, so you've just written a book on film photography and your favorite film camera is Nikon F, The original Yogi Nikon F from 1959 I think. Oh, it's gorgeous. It's so, it's like a tank, mini tank. You can pound nails with that thing too. I think you can, you can like, I think Don mccullin uh, is Ivan F I think it's the f Don Mccullin dwarfed over. He got shot out with an Ak 47. It's dr bullet, that's how solid it is. Well, I wouldn't recommend purposely using it as a military fest. But uh yeah, solid. All right. You've just written a book on film, photography and the last time you were in a dark room was probably probably when I was in Hong kong watching somebody else do it right? You know, I it's okay. My days of getting my hands dirty have long gone. I have moved into a bigger house. So now maybe I can use the kitty's room as a dark room. Don't do it. Just just coming from someone who just went down a hole, pinhole camera extravaganza and had a darkroom in my bathroom for the past, I don't know, a few weeks. Not advised. I don't. It's now it's so, I'm so divorced from that. I think it's it's beautiful in the chemical smell a certain way. And you know, it's very nostalgic, but I didn't love it. I'm very happy just to send film to allow, Yeah. You know what I mean? If if people are getting into film photography, it's cool if they want to try it. I mean, yeah, but there's some purists who will say you've got to do it if you shoot film and I don't think there's there's nothing wrong with sending it to a lab. It's if it keeps you interested in the art, film photography, then so be it possible money. But you know, once that served as life, is it? All right. So favorite lens not this is divorced from film photography. Now, I'm I'm off the film photography questions and on to just again there, gearhead listening to this that want to know what your favorite lens all time, all that. I mean that lego camera lens is a bit special, isn't it? That that was, that was some super sharp optics there. Oh man, this is a reminder for, I don't know if if you remember this, but look at my camera is out of focus. Um Like do you remember that there was a delay between when you click that, when you press the shutter and when the shutter would actually be triggered and that delay was random. Yeah, I think it's probably on pacific time. I think it was, it was definitely not in Hong kong time. Uh huh. Uh No. Favorite favorite lens. Probably I'm just going to be, I'm just going to name the most expensive lens which is in like and not nuts, but the original. Well not the original, there's the F 1.2 version which is too expensive. F 1.1 That's Oh, that's gorgeous. I still wish I had it today, but sometimes it's nicer to have money. I can't justify yesterday live for a year in the UK as opposed to having can't justify having a $5,000 lens or how much it costs. No, it's I think it's more, it's probably probably a bit more than that. But there's a lashes lens. It's fantastic. The book is gorgeous, but it's a very special use lens but still I love the dreamy, dreamy look of the multi lens. All right. Your favorite three episodes of digital rev Of course it's going to be chased Jarvis lego carer. That was for for so many reasons. That's why I said three. That's why I said three just in case you didn't include me in the first one. Then, you know, there's, I had two other spots to other chances. No, but there are so many legendary ones. I'm serious. What were three of you? It doesn't have to be. I hate when I'm asked like the most, the best anything ist anything Superlative. I hate those questions. So three that you think fondly of. Yeah, I mean there's a lego camera, the chase Jarvis, lego camera. Because you know, when we start doing the pro photography can challenges. So we kind of thought about you because of, you know, the best camera your book. It was so influential that time. And uh we thought it was like, okay, we've got chase Jarvis, we can't do any better than that. Once we've got chase Jarvis on it, it was fantastic. We, we did so many, we took you around Hong kong and we had an anti um suggesting pleasure you or something like that. I can't remember. There's a you just, I'll recap my highlights from that you had uh one of the subjects was I think missed spoken english about pleasuring me, uh what um there was the kung fu like troop or whatever they were uh that was super super intense. You you made me eat pig's anus, it's literally like from street food and I didn't know what it was and then it was just, it was basically it looked like calamari to me and uh the savory snack we smother didn't speak. Mhm. And and uh and smothered it in hot sauce and you know whatever. It just, it it tasted like calamari and I think that was also on film. I mean that was a a very crazy adventure. Um Yeah, I enjoyed that. Okay, so j Sheriff's lego camera. Cool. Thanks for the obvious answer. What about other too? So it's got to be painting camera pink because that was that was when I was still filming myself. It was just me stuck inside of room filming myself and I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't think it was gonna be a viral hit. Uh I mean it could go down like a nasty virus or it could be a viral hit. I wouldn't say it was a viral, it probably annoyed a lot of people but that that was quite something to be taking a camera art painting and I think and I got electrocuted as well so I have to To put that in one of my top three just because his blood sweat and electrocutions. And then what about slot three? These are fantastic episodes that are still out there on the internet and you can go look them up. So highly encouraged if you want to be entertained. Um, you've got to check it out. So number three. Number three, I would have to say the God, this is just straight from my head. I would say the emoji episode. We were to recreate emojis using yellow paint, which is, which which could be an offensive yellow, yellow skinning chinese people. But we did it and it was funny. It was it was actually returns idea. So, we to give a shout out to you and it's fantastic. We had good fun. It's basically a whole team. Everybody had fun. And it is uh, brings back good memories for me. All right, top three. That's not quite 10, but I'm going to use this the six remaining for top three things you enjoy the most about the book process. Number one, who is challenging because it felt like being at university again doing a dissertation. It's there were times where for what did I do? You know, I'm still, I still gotta make videos for the child. Every author, every every author ever like right after signing your book contract the first two weeks you're writing your like, yeah, it was it was it was weeks and months. And and I thought uh what am I doing? Well when, when, when should I get started? Um I looked up with people, people, I looked and I looked at your book and I thought, what what how did how does Chase do this? Um So yeah, it was a challenge. It was, it was back at uni. I always did, I literally did my final year dissertation on the night before we suppose we hand in and it almost felt like that with this. Uh, but yeah, it's challenging it. I kind of like the pressure. I think I always work under pressure and I like the fire under my bum to get me to produce stuff. I'm not always that proactive when it comes to getting started. So yeah, challenge something new, something different. Um, number two, I guess it was because it's uh, for back film photography. I mean it is, as I said, a passion of mine and if, if doing any book, it has to be about feeling totally, especially while it's not dead. I think it's more meaningful that is still around. People talked about the death of filming photography for a long time and it's still, it's still being used and by new generation and it feels good to be uh, connecting with a whole new generation of thomas who want to get into film tom thing. Number of sweet, Number three, no 3, it was, it's the unexpectedness because I agreed to do this just before all this covid stuff happened. And then, and then because I had agreed, my original idea for this book was to go traveling to use some money and go traveling, take some photos, put in the book, film photos, put in the book and then writer around those, those photos and that. But that completely changed. So it's, I love, I love that we kind of turned it into something is we didn't have to force push out the original idea. Essentially what I did was take my photo fee and we basically looked at all these films for thomas from the community and said, hey, would you like to be in a book? And then basically I gave up my fee and that was used for that. And so it's good to change to turn them into do something for the community with the community and promoting good photos because my photos were being rubbish Anyway, so it's, it's good to fill this bag with, with all these amazing photographers and their work. All right. Three things that you found to be the most difficult about the process. Oh my God, I think I've blown on my blow my load. I mentioned it already. Right, You know, rattling off what I heard. I heard uh, not a writer, I heard deadlines or a problem and I heard I need give me at least one more Because that's my 10 questions I promised. Yeah, I mean this is well, as the first, I'm not sure if all people who his first book, you write the first book, maybe it's like pancakes, you first pancake. It's always rubbish. I'm not saying this is rubbish, it could be, it's a new experience. This is, this is testing the temperature of the pan. And uh, and luckily I had a mentor uh, the editor steve, he's helped me a lot because um, you know, I don't know the whole process of writing books. It's a, it was kind of difficult. It was like, whoa, okay, this is, it is not writing on some block. This is this is a different level. Is once, it's once it's between two covers, it, It's sort of quite professional, isn't it? So that was challenge number one. Being professional. Yeah. Um, well, alright, fair enough, you completed my 10 question quiz. Um, Again, just as a reminder for folks, the title of the book is old school photography. 100 things you must know to take fantastic film photos. You can buy it right now on the internet, it will ship to you starting July 21. So whenever you're listening to this, ah, there you go. You heard it here? Maybe first or second. We're going to get this out nice and early and support your book. But congratulations. So new chapter of this year conversation, one of the things that I, I love about you and your videos is obviously your personality. It's personality driven show, um, that the approach that you have is super casual. There's an accessibility. You know, I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about your creative process because there's right now there's people who are aspiring Youtubers or their gear heads or, and they followed you or they're new to you. And there's just some, you have some quality about um, about you and the videos that you make. And I'm wondering if you can let people in. This is a very common question I have in the show. And I mean, I've known the answers to most of these questions just because we've been friends for a decade, but this, we never really talked about your creative process, whether that's a book or a video or a photograph. And I'm wondering if you can walk us through, how you think about the, uh, the process. Yeah. I mean when it comes to create a process is in the book, I mentioned that it's useful when you're first starting off too, pick up on other people's styles and maybe try to emulate that and from there you can move on and do your own thing. But I think with when it comes to making videos, I think is better to just start and do your own thing because a lot of videos, there are a lot of videos these days on Youtube, which look very simply. And I think because there's, there's maybe some big you, there's always some big Youtuber people like, and then they try to do exactly the same thing is that Youtube and ends up, you get a loan videos that couldn't see me. But I think it's better in the long run if you start off as yourself because you can, you can maintain that a lot easier than if you're always trying to emulate somebody's work. If you start off emulating someone, it's like, and you suddenly revert to your own personality, which is of course normal, then it's a lot harder to do and to kind of explain that. So be yourself. And if you liked, that's, that's good because people really liking work for who you are. That's a time complaint is, um, that happens. I mean, my, my creative process is has always been okay, I've got these ideas, let's put it down. It's not about okay, what do I know for sure this is going to be successful? Is it gonna be, it's gonna be funny, It's just I like this, this is this is good in my head, write it down, develop that, and then and then make it, I don't script things too much, because I think when you're trying to remember script for this kind of thing, I think it's it ends up being a bit too rigid, unlike when you're clearly trying to hit those lines, trying to remember those lines unscripted. So is the future of your channel going to continue to be in that style? Is it gonna be unscripted? And uh you talked about getting the band back together with Lock, is that is that part of the direct scripted vlog style? You know, when when we when we did, you know like proton cheap current challenges is about having these good ideas. It's not necessarily about, okay, we're going to we're going to script this and have these amazingly written lines. That's so funny. It's just about let's let's have organized these things to happen and let it play out and the funny things we'll eventually happen. This this is this is always something we've done it. It's sort of like a um yeah, scripted but it's not you plan things to happen, but it's still naturally happens if that makes sense. Yeah, the nuance. All that little, the little uh texture, you can say this is going to be a funny scene, for example, putting chase with some kung fu masters. But all the little moments in between that's like where the judges or when you're disassembling the camera to make it pink and you can't really plan that you I mean, I guess suppose that you could plan to get electrocuted, but it's usually not in the script to shock yourself as an example in my right or you're missing the point. I mean, of course when you open the camera, you're bound to expose you to sell to that kind of thing, but that was not planned, It's not about making making things happen that will make the content is rich as possible. Then you reduce that into a nice uh consummate, whatever, whatever. It's a very condensed tasting source. And I mean it's it's just it's just me filming myself and there's only so much you can do and I'm not really willing to, you know, I'm not in a typical vlog of which who will vlog about everything about their life and the family and I don't really want to show my kids on the camera because who knows? Maybe maybe in a few years time they will say, hey dad, you know what I didn't want, I don't want to be on camera. I'm getting, I'm getting bullied at school because uh, they're laughing at me on your videos, how they're you. And then I'm assuming probably, and I don't want that to happen. Fair enough. So is there some sort of a book tour or what do you have planned to help share the book far and wide? Like I know, you know, podcasts probably part of the strategy, but I'm curious are you just going to rely on your endemic audience because there's a roughly a million of your fans and followers in the Youtube's, what's, what's your plan? I'm, you know what, it's, what we had originally planned was completely different to know. Originally I was supposed to go to L. A. You know, hang out in America shoot, shoot a video and a sign some books. Of course, Covid happened and there's this whole unpredictability of, we just have to change everything. And even even now and there's no book signings plan because we don't know what's happening even in, in the UK. We don't know when things are going to settle down a bit. So it's a bit of a shame, but we just have to make do with what you can. Fair enough. Well, we were going to be excited to see you over here and now that we don't, um, I will, I'll buy my lip, but I hope to get to hang out with you again in the not too distant future. Man, It's been too long. I think the last time we were together was in, was it maybe London? Yeah. Or something. Yeah, I was out there for a photography conference or something. Yeah. No. Uh, what I was out there for. But we got, we had lunch at some lovely little cafe. I remember you're choosing Yes. Yeah. And then before that was, it's probably like five year intervals, isn't it? Yeah. Well, as given, it's been five years, I should let you know that I will be in the UK in september. I'm yeah. Speaking at one of the photo shows there, I won't Yes. Well, look forward to being reunited if you can grab lunch. Different. Is it the photography show? I don't know. I think so. Uh, one of the shows, these things dot on the horizon. Yeah, I will will promote it when the time is shows just how busy a man you are. It's so many things going on. It cuts both ways and not as busy a person who's got a rapidly growing family and a book and a new Youtube channel and Friends, you know, and lock moving back to, I'm sure he's gonna have to sleep on your couch for a little bit at least. So you also are busy and I wanted to say thanks for taking time out of your schedule to sit here with us and to bring back a little bit of the O. G juice here, the, the digital rev, but mostly less about digital. Reading more about you, your personality. Thank you so much for being such a shining star in the photography industry. So many people have learned so much from your videos, been entertained. Um, you were fantastic host and I'm looking forward to your next chapter. And of course the book, which I'm going to give another shout out here. The title again is Old School Photography, 100 Things You must know to take fantastic Film photos out here in mid July 2021. So if you don't have a copy like now is the time, um, any advice to the listeners out there? Uh, as we ride off into the sunset, I would love a closing piece of wisdom from you. Mr kim and wal don't hold back do anything as long as it doesn't get you arrested spoken like a true renegade. Thanks so much for being on the show, but appreciate it. Let's go out and support guy. And uh, and I will hit you separately on on on your internet connected device so that we can get lunch in september. All right, Thank you. Chase. Of course signing off everybody Until next time. Let's go support Kai and I bid you all and you, mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.