Lessons

Lesson Info

Shoot: Classical Glamour

We're going to take some more pictures here. We've got several little subtle changes that we're going to do from things that we've done previous part of part of lighting and understanding good control is it's about placement, positioning, size of source, but placement is kind of a big deal, and as we learned as I talked about earlier in the week, you know, the traditional portrait photographers always taught that there were four patterns of light on the face that the rembrandt pattern, the loop light pattern, a split light where your faces half lit, I have friends that are half left, I don't know on ben, pardon me, the butterfly or paramount like, and that came around from the paramount studio days, and cecil beaton and george carol and some of the great hollywood glamour for tara hers, who really would chisel out the features of their actresses they were photographing with these great looks and that feature that look, that clamshell light, which we talk about it with the glamour life,...

is designed to do some things like smooth out skin, enhance cheekbones, bring eyes forward things like that, and all of those little subtle changes of light qualities I can do, all of that and that's, what I hope that people get from this class is that, you know, you make subtle changes in lighting. Once you understand the foundation of how light works that's one thing but then when you start understanding some of the subtle subtle changes that you make with position or and or placement uh little things happen you can receive problems and you can bring features and good features forward so you do start paying attention to say so sort of little details like that so what we're gonna do with jin here we're gonna bring jin over here on the set in a second here and we're gonna put her under these lights and jen is amazing and she's and she's she's going to be with us this whole session she's gonna change clothes halfway through we're going to a little hollywood forties glamour thing but first I just want to go through some kind of a traditional kind of glamour clam shell out with her and I just love this face she's got this hair force you got this great dress hanging leaving leary's jen come on down. Thank you for doing this fan he's awesome so we're gonna put you right underneath there and let's get her right on the stool and the first thing I want to do is let's hold that back over for just a second I want to just take a look at her face she's really symmetrical which is great and people that have faces that aren't quite symmetrical you can't get away with this light quite azizi you know you have to put something in the shadow of things are a little crooked or off a little bit it's funny you know, you look at people there's some portrait's by some great great photographers out there where they d'oh what they call like a naked and raw portrait where there's no control, no retouching, nothing fancy one small life source right dead center in their face and it's a very telling thing because I saw one recently of george clooney and I've seen beautiful portrait of george clooney but this picture revealed that he's got one eye that's considerably smaller he's got one smile and one side of his mouth is droops slightly he's gotta nostra that's up slide just little small and preferably has got everybody has small imperfections and yet they're not so often revealed in photographs when photographed by someone that knows what they're doing they kind of hide the imperfections, but in this case she's got wonderful symmetric symmetric features. What I will do is if I'm going to turn her I can tell already if I want to turn her face at all which way do you think I might turner just by looking at her face? Any ideas? Okay, what would that mean? Because the partner here you've been paying attention bob right because of the partner hair I want to shoot into the open part of her face not the other side, and if I turn her head that way, her face looks round and symmetrical and so does your head if I turn her face back this way, her head has got a big lump on this side and it doesn't continue to the other side because I've lost that part. So think about that when you are sizing up your client when you're about to bring him into the studio and do a session kind of look and see if their hair is not, you know, part of down the center if it's not part of one, so figure that out and old and you want to shoot in that open part of their face unless you're trying to do a special effects picture, then it might be different okay for for an effect, but for just captured their features. Shooting into the part is a kind of a sensible way to go kind of can't really mess that up, so ok, so john oh, john e I didn't even ask the question don have ten just move the light it's snowing now yeah, I moved last was no longer have to like think oh that's funny that's funny if nine okay, so just just to get get us started here I say what I want to do, jim why don't we kill the power on that back from the second till we get there let's do this for me I want you to yeah I want you to get charles turn you that way just a little bit numbering head back into the light just little red and sort of like that and I want your arm to just let's look, that arm just kind of hang down like that yeah, yeah yeah and lean kind of set of good and tall and then over the waste is lean forward right up over your waist yeah and I'll bring you head to me this way turn turn turn right in there here we go let's just take a look at this face and we'll see what the light gives us now I'm shooting again I'm shooting horizontal um and I'm in a situation here where I can get away with horizontal have nothing out there that's causing me any any trouble or cause them any grief so if we can crank up the light room there there we go and can we just take a quick glance at that history graham like for just a second? Okay, now let's take a look and see what we've got we've got a little bit of a gap on the right we've got a little bit of gap on the left get the idea we're not geniuses here. We just did what the meter told us, and remember that the incident dome out and named it the life source will always give you one thing. What is it reality? True brightness reality it always give you a reality you're subject will always look like your subjects supposed to look, you don't have to do any figuring in your head and of use a smart meter or any kind of a reflect its value meter you've got figuring to do you've got to find something of a mid tone value to meet her off of with the incident meter guys, you do exactly what it tells you, you just can't miss you just can't. Okay, so here's what I'd like to do let's do another one of those and let's just turn I want I want to lean forward a little bit more yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah little just lean a little more I don't wanna lose you and I want you to bring your head back quite in fact you know what? That's what I want right there, but I want to do it the other direction so let's spin around spin we'll spend wheel spin there we go, there we go and now this is a this is a really weird part keep your back kind of straight yeah now bring you hit around turn, turn, turn, turn turn yeah, yeah, yeah yeah right in there like that oh yeah now we're cooking now we're cooking that looks really nice. Good, good, good. Okay, that's looking pretty good. I do feel that it's just a tiny bit hot so I'm going to close down a third, so I mean, it was ten c it was at ten all along wasn't it that john knew? Okay, good. Here we go. Great, perfect. What a great smile! What a great look. Now, what I wanted to one of the things that is absolutely for sure is that when I've got a light in any position that's directional I'm going to have highlights and shadows in this case, the shadows from below are a little bit stronger than I want and I want to open those up just a bit. So we're going to bring in the reflector from underneath and just kind of open up that area underneath just a little bit to give her a little bit of brightness so right in there is probably pretty good one really get let me get one of you maybe million yuan stepped in and hold the other side of that there you go great and that you guys can just wiggle it up and down a little bit into you can start to see it pop in her face there there you go come down just a little bit with it and you're right there right there good, great good that's real nice. Yes oh, now on this one if we can get mike to bring them both up together and let's look at the side by side that would be awesome and you can see that it is I don't want to add a lot, but I do want to add a little see the difference in the contrast range it's very, very subtle but what it does and especially when someone's weren't like satin any kind of clothing with a fabric that's gotta sheen so I do have a little bit of a sheen to it so that's kind of a fun thing. So we wanted we want to be sure that we bring that out and so that that extra phil will also add a little bit of light in that sheen area in the eyes of certainly underneath the eyes under the nose under the chin those all the areas that are getting hit sort of so to speak so that's great let's do a couple more of those john let's just turn your head around this way a little bit more that one right there that's a great expression good let's do one more not quite his biggest smile on this one great right there beauty beauty and I believe our friends in the north would say beauty I didn't finally figure out how to spell canada c a hey I know you guys were on the border appear you know howto do you guys have been there take off okay so okay so I don't want to do is let me just turn that background light this is just for fun I just want to put a little color back there and see if we like this we might not like it but I wanted to put just a little bit of color back there what power is that on you know okay so well let's just take the shot and we'll take a look see wait just in the element of time I'm not going to take the time that meter this one quite yet but I will in just a second here we go turn your head around just a bit this way oh yeah good yeah so we got just a little bit of green coming in here uh and I kind of like it but I think I want to change that to this I think I like the contrast in color better than that so we're going we're going to change that really fast on again like contrast in colors where we've got opposite sides of the spectrum working together in a case like this I don't even have to worry about this too much here it's not going to be seen and it's not going to fall off and he's going to get melty or anything like that and it's just going to give me a little bit of a little bit of a warm back their toe offset that green and bring your head around just a little there we go are not blue sari there we go it's not going to add a lot but it had a little bit a little bit of texture back their color I like that I like that I think I might power it down just a little bit but we're getting pretty close we're getting pretty close and let me drop that to their and I'm gonna put that oh I see what you did on I'm not gonna mess with john he's a clever one he's a clever one he's done this before great great right there. Great. Now I'm one more not quite his biggest mile good, good good nice that's really nice I like this a lot. Can we just take a look at her eyes? I'll miss one shot let's zoom right in there yeah, making him go look at him work that look at him work those rumors yeah and that movie rise up a little higher in the frame if you could find just what you see your lips as well so look at how smooth that highlight is on a lipstick I know I know this is a silly little small thing but I do look for that stuff because when the smoke clears and you've got the big stuff taken care of they're sharp they look like they look and they're you know all that stuff but then you start looking at the details stuff before you deliver and you and you guys I know most of you you're going to zoom in on the stuff you're going to spend a long time retesting and the young women work on for imperfections and you're gonna look a lip highlight that's going to make you insane unless it's really nice and smooth and even and you might even go in and try to reattach it otherwise this way look at this this face requires no retouching what a great face what great I mean everything about this looks really great skin is she's got really good skin yeah well, you know she's seventeen that's what seventeen year olds look like so okay so I want to move this tripod out the way I want to shoot a few of these vertical so you guys are gonna need to give me a little bit more space there here we go way ok so and again I'd like to move just a little bit back and I'm my focal length now is that two hundred so let's just take a look right there good one more of those good good good now squid and set up for men and I think that once you stand up for one let's get her to stand up and john I think we might need to raise our light up another head probably a foot or so something like that and the distance is going to be pretty much to say there you go just another interrupt that's it right there that's it right there good, good, good, good, good you want help me with something? They're written you want to grab that and I need you kind of down low and maybe grab that light in the background just tip it up a little bit because I think we're going to lose it just tip it up. Tippett andre oh, sorry he's to be a football player named andre tippett ok, here we go way you got that? Okay, john, let me take a look. Put your hand your fists on your hips. Yeah, throw your legs apart just a little bit or separate your feet of their love it yeah, yeah just throw one hip over there you go and bring your head around just a bit right there there we go there we go there we go good, good, good good now we're talking now we're talking and can you guys lower this reflector just a bit I just I mean those in her other hand I just need to see your hand that's it that's it that's great great great good good that's pretty fun that's pretty fun so now we're kind of getting in there okay, so everybody relax for just a second let's make a big change here we don't want to do is pull down the soft box and I want to put the let's put the beauty dish after so jin just relax for just a second thank you brit and make sure that's on their good and solid and then he grabbed the dish so the beauty dish again, we've talked about this on day one when we talked about the tools, but in case anybody missed that segment, the beauty dishes exactly this its head worlds send the light out into this round dome inside and it basically bounces off of that and distributes evenly inside the head and then come straight out so we'll work with it. I want to show you what it looks like with out the grid spot and then we'll add the grid spot and we'll do the comparison back and forth and you're going to see the difference and it's really subtle changes but with the grid it's pretty good because it really does sort of focus the light and let's it fall off the bottom so it's a real nice touch and I think I think beauty dishes almost required grid spot you know but we need to be able to see the differences in the subtle changes that that makes so we'll do without the grid first and you're probably gonna have to drop that power down a couple of stops that once you know maybe one stuff once you take that soft box off the power does go up quite a bit there you go it was two five down to one five ok so I'm just going to spin this to their single straight up and I'm watching the nose and I'm looking at her nose just looks recording camera send down a tiny that right there look up look at the shadow under knows you see that shadow that's what I'm looking for I'm going for that shadow to see what it looks like okay and you see how it just for safety's sake do you see how we've got the arm with this out away from the stand you see hats over a leg they can't fall that way it you just can't if it's between two legs it's kind of fall over and break every time so be really it's just like two tripod I keep my tripod leg my front leg under lin's all the time just for that reason, some nothing can fall forward and break these air. These air these air the voices of experience that you're listening to down eight point four eight point four eight point four it's my favorite aperture ok, so let's do this. Can we make sure we turn off that backlight? Yeah, and just make sure it's just not even on great jim. You're awesome. Way sure appreciate you doing this. Okay, here we go. He's coming here. I just want take a look at her face real quick and good right there. Turning head to me just a bit more. This one. Yes, and just turn your head that we're just a little right there. Good, good, good, good. Go ahead and bring up your other your other hand as well. Yeah, there you go and again, just kind of separate your feet a little bit more and throw one hip out there. Just bam that's it that's it right there. Great, great. And just turn your head that way a little bit more right there. Good. So you can see even if that distance is starting to fall off down below just a little bit, we're starting to lose a little bit of light down below and that's just the bottom edge of the beauty dish that's sort of being the banding yet it so let's bring a silver reflector and from below and kind of fill that face in and fill in all those areas underneath uh you want to jump up and help this one of the england great and so what we want to try to do here is with a silver there is a little tiny bit of danger of adding too much like to the face and especially in light that is not defused so for example if I'm if I'm using a soft box and I bring in silver it's hard to overdo the silver but if I'm using a beauty dish or an uncontrolled light source and I bring in silver it's pretty easy to overdo it and get too much silver so let me take a look here let me just look at her rise and we might want to lower lower that down just a little let me just see it's just wiggle it back and forth right about there bam right there that's the spot holy toledo no for a movement that's great good good good can you all lower lord just lower two inches that's it that's it right there right there good good good great so now let's take a look at this one and then put him side by side and take a look and see what you think and look at the eyes and what you'll see is that that mike good in there so look at the one on the left and look at you can start to see that silver catch light in the bottom of the eye on the left and you can see how it opened up the trouble area under the eyes, under the nose, under the chin. Just a little bit if you want more than we can add more if you want less than we could pull it back. But it really does make a difference. And hollywood days in the hollywood glamour days, any time you had a source, you know, let's say you have a source on top that's, that's coming down this way, and then you have a reflector on bottom like this, and you shoot between those two. It was always called clamshell lighting because it was like it's, like a clam shell that you open up insecure lens in there. And so that right there gave you the control toe really elevate the picture to wherever you wanted. Yeah, um, would you ever use a sock on a beauty dish like this? Yeah, and when would you use it? Not using the sock eyes a great it's a diffuser. And we've got one back here oh, it is ok, well, we're not going to get in. What the diffuser does the suck just it diffuses a little bit further but keep in mind it's not gonna defuse it a lot it's going to make the light source a little bit less speculator but it's not making the life source any bigger so it's not making it in a softer it's just making it a little bit less speculator now that's a strange little concept it's kind like the concept of the diffuser on your speed light everybody has a little pullout drawer of softener that comes out of your speed lightened folds down or you can snap one on well that can't soften much because you're not changing the size of the source right? Because the law physics says in order to soften and you've got increased the size of the source relative to its distance well what that can do is it can not a little bit of the speculator ity off but it's not really going to soften it a lot because it's gotta get bigger to be softened so you have to be careful in using those kind of the texans in front your speed like by the way because you'll be replacing batteries all the time you know I just need a battery unless you're in a small room where it may catch them a low ceiling there's something but otherwise that's wasting batteries yeah yeah I'll tell you the world of speed lights has come a long way yes could do a lot of work with in studio with speed lights on a lot of people that do I just I've got to have the control and I'm gonna be able to see what I'm doing and there's too many accessories that I use that are not available for speed lights some I'm not sure that I could ever be a studio speed like that at all okay, so I'm liking what we're getting here I want to do one or two more just for variety sake and then we're going to put a little bit of lighten her hair, light her up a little bit and then we'll put the grid on here and we'll see what happens great and just lower that down in front just a little bit you guys there you go good, good good grades and go ahead and turn back to me just turn to square to the camera and just yeah, perfect just like that in fact, this full one foot over another one there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah good aunt on that's your shoulders relax a little bit and I just leaned toward me just a little right there perfect though that I like that expression can you lower your hand any land? Just lower your side this little bit of the whole thing about an inch more that's it right there good great I'm coming a little bit tighter this time good good good okay on this one no smile great good good I like this last one that's looking pretty nice he hasn't been on that one look at that face hole that's pretty good like quality right there for for her scan that's that's really nice ok so let's do this you could look over you realize that for a second let's leave that I don't think we're going to get background on this station but let's put that strip of pretty high and behind her and we'll turn horizontal like that and we're gonna hit her from behind I want to try to get it toe try to get on both shoulders if we can and uh and we'll get it down it's one of I just want to light up her hair a little bit and I want to give just a little bit of a kicker to her to her shoulders one of the things that in the studio situation and you notice it even in here in the creative live set the area I mean we're all lit by these wonderful horizontal light sources that are all over the building these kino flows which are really great flights and if you think about it russ and jim are being hit by strip lights from behind and up high to separate their hair and their shoulders and they're back of their jackets and the desk from from from the background to give them good separation and it's that kino flow with and then you notice that's even got a diffuser on it tio actually soften and not the speculator t down on that life and I think that's a pretty pretty good stroke of genius somebody probably took my class that did but I do love the sea people practice some of the same things that I preach so I love to see that that's good really helps a lot ok so let's get a good clean reading on that and I am shooting at nine yeah closed down just a tiny bit so that's when we what's giving you back here I'm getting for even for even yeah we're going to power it up if we could go up one full stop it would be good that would be good then we're gonna rock and roll here for a little bit then we're going to put the grid back in we're going to try that if you like the redaction then we're gonna let her change clothes and we're going to try this hollywood glamour things well kind of wrap this thing up and that's going to be a fun shoot I just loved some of the variations that we can get with that so we'll kind of go through the clamshell I'll say yeah yeah yeah bring it on bring it on buddy boy okay good great right there perfect. Let me just look at this hair and now we're talking look at the difference in the hair from shot one two shot to right here as we go into this one let's do that same shot on that. Let me get one with her head down. Just a little credit me again. Yeah, there you go down just a little, right? Yeah, right there. Good, good. Now we're talking now let's, use this one, michael, with the previous that one right there and look at her hair, you know, being dumped in the middle. There you go. So you can see how just that that strip like back there now, even as it is. It's still about a minus wouldn't read it was minus two. I think so. It's about it's more than minus one and a half it's probably about a minus one half minus wanted two thirds below whatever I'm shooting it and look at the highlight on her shoulder. You see how that separation highlight just came in, okay? Those are the kind of things that we're talking about those little accents, those little strip, those those scrims or our kickers are everybody's got a different name for him, but for me you've got to separate that light, I've got to separate her from the backgrounds ok let's do a few variations here real quick and then we're going to put the grid in ok here we go right there good great great great bring that light bring that reflected up just a little bit higher in this time there we go good down just a little bit without there you go good good journalist turned your shoulders the other way this time switch feet this time there you go yeah now bring your head around this way to me just a bit yeah there you go that's nice good now bring me your shoulders this way not this way a little bit more little bit more that's it right there great good what I just did was gave her a little bit more base to the picture I kind of messed up your mouth on that one sorry you did what you will see your shoulder when I when I brought her back around I had turned just far enough to where if we could go back about two or three like right there see that see that open area on the right side of the frame to me there's no base to the foundation of her body on the right edge of the picture I can't live with that personally compositionally so the next shot I brought her shoulder back around so that I've gotta have a base unless it's a fooling shot if it's a head shot I can't have that I can't have a shot like that without a base to the foundation, she feels like she's falling out of the frame so it's a small little thing but it's something I really do kind of keep a watch on so when those little small little point toe just, you know, keep in mind, okay? Let's, put the grid and get it, and you guys didn't drop that for a second, and you're doing awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you understand. Ugo go, john, sometimes you got to be real careful with the placement of your grids because you do get yourself in a little bit of a bind where the grid, if you're not right on access to the lightest area of the grid, it will go pretty dark around the edges, and it does drop off pretty pretty rapidly. It'll fall off pretty quickly. So tell me a quick question, or maybe john cancer this while you're thinking because I know people ask it, what degree grid is that in there? Do you know? I think probably about thirty I don't I think, for their regular, smaller grids, they do have a variety of different grid degrees, but I think the beauty is they just have one and it's, usually about a mid mid size, which is a fight of thirty something like that so that's so make sure that you feel like your face is it well lit so you can move around a little bit t thank you in the light good pretty close right there okay good five six six five six six which would be what everybody seven point one seven point one is correct that's right ex gets the square that's going to make the background to break we're going try anyway just to look you know I was one of popular and see and look at this without anything added to it see what you think that's something so we can zoom in there mike I think we can add the silver back in but I just wanted you to see that sometimes this works pretty well without you know sometimes you can do this and at first glance you might think well maybe the life is too high okay but look at the shadow from her nose that that is the the consummate perfect butterfly like that the butterfly light is by definition is that the shadow on the lip appears like a small butterfly wing well that's exactly what we've got there you have to be careful with some people they have condor lighting but in this case the butterfly butterfly lighting works just fine ok, so let's go ahead and pop that and we'll do a couple more of these can you see that weight in there? Okay okay. And drop it down just a little bit. You guys have been there. Great. Good right there. I like that. I got a blink. Sorry there, let's. Kill that one. Here we go. Good, good, good. Good. Yeah, goes that one goes away. This one's getting in there. There's this is kind of fun. Now I can lower this down. I can I can drop the the level of this that the height of this just a bit. And bring a little bit more light in her eyes right there looking arrives. Now look straight toward the camera right in there. I'm going a little bit more light in their eyes. So, tony, on this reflector are you capturing the light off of your rear accent light? I am, I am him down, so I think I would if that were tipped over quite a bit more vertical. I wouldn't pick it up, so you don't have to be a little bit careful about that, so yeah, can I can see that strip light in there. No, I don't. Okay. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so either. Fund station in your eyes turn your head just a little that way right there, ten down a little bit of a comeback up right there. Good, good, good I like this one. And this this one is this one pops in right here. That was gonna look gorgeous and black and white. I love it in color, but I'm telling you in black like that thing's going to sing that's gonna look great. Ok, jen let's take this opportunity for you to go change and we're going to rearrange a little bit in here. You guys are both you for just a second to think some questions and I'm gonna rearrange the settled it that way we would love to sounds three killed. Tony, you want a question? You're going a great, great great. We need to give her that back. So this is from joe bt um wants to note just tony have any tips on how to make a living in photography in these difficult, challenging time ems this's gonna be that I'm the only guy in the country they will say this right now, but in these difficult, challenging times, there's never been a better time to create. As a good friend of mine, tim walton says, create gaps, and I said to him, what are you talking about? Create gaps, he said, create gaps, create gaps between you and all of your competition. Create gaps in the quality of the work, create gaps in your pricing create gaps in the product offerings, create gaps so that nobody can compare you that you were at a level so far above everybody else they won't compare you. I know so many photographers that are so worried about the world of people who are selling, shooting and burning, you know, uh and just delivering cds only or dvds only, and they're not they're not working with with final prince and and people are just so concerned about that they're doing it for real, inexpensive money. If you lower yourself and muck and get down in that muck, you're going calls herself some some heartache. So for me, the first thing I would do is you've got to make sure that your quality is at a level that is elevated above the masses, if if that makes any sense, educate yourself and do everything you can to bring your level of quality up second would be elevate your pricing a little bit, make sure that it is appropriate for what you're doing, and I can say this and everybody that's new to photography this is a scary thought, but don't price your work toe what you personally could afford her would spend on yourself that's not fair, what you're what you're saying is that the value of your work is this well, that value that work might be considerably more to your client so you've got to be very, very careful about not pricing your work too low because that's all you think you would ever pay you might think I would never afford myself I would never afford to pay what I charge I could never afford me but that's not I'm not my customer and I think that's sort of the challenge visually you just got to separate yourself so you've got a visually do something either unique are different are just so far much better that people know the difference interesting note about the you know, people turning to undervalue themselves. We had someone named joey coleman who's here teaching about customer service and creating amazing customer experience it was a really good class, but he said something that really struck me and has been resonating with me throughout the rest of these classes, he said, your creative people you know, talking to our audience you are creative people and so you think that it's totally natural to be able to see the end product beforehand that's a skill that not everyone has not everyone has that ability and so way naturally undervalue the things that we can do easily and so the things that were like well, everyone can just take a picture can't they know they can't and that's why they're coming to you that's why what you do has value and it's so easy to undervalue ourselves because it comes easily to us so the things that were good at the things that we naturally gravitate to when we want to do business are the things that we least value it's just it's a really interesting concept yeah I think I think that's a great that's a really great point to be made I know that there are some people that are so concerned and yet I know that even when economic times are hard the people that suffer the most of the commercial guys you know, one of the one of my friends at the mag group boy says that he always knows how the economy is doing because you subscribes to every fashion magazine there is and pieces I can tell by how thick the magazines are every month when advertisers when advertising is off the economy suffering that's the first thing people cut back on his full page advertising and all son instead of a three hundred fifty page glamour magazine it might be to eighty this month and he knows the photographers are hurting because they're not being hired to shoot those ads so it's all a big circle we all know that that there's a lot of challenges financially and economically out there certainly there's a big, big big new wave of new photographer's coming into the market that while they have a great eye and they can really take a great picture that don't always know how they got there or how they did it. And and so that same lack of of information exists and how they sell themselves and sell their work. Oh, I'm just a mom with two kids at home. I don't have to charge very much well and not charging very much. You're devaluing everybody in your communities, so we do. We want everybody to rise to the level of professionalism and rise up to that. You know, to that level that is appropriate.