The Marketing Hourglass
The Marketing Hourglass
5. The Marketing Hourglass
Class Introduction25:31 2
Strategy Business Model51:40 3
Perfect Marketing Strategy1:15:15 4
Inbound Marketing Model1:22:27 5
The Marketing Hourglass1:14:53 6
Content and Lead Capture1:19:12 7
Blogging and SEO1:09:05
Email and Social Media1:26:49 9
Mobile, Conversion, and Analytics1:11:42 10
Advertising and PR1:22:02 11
Referral Generation59:30 12
Selling a System1:18:07 13
Tracking and Planning1:24:13
The Marketing Hourglass
All right, last segment today we are going to talk about something that in depth that I've introduced several times called the marketing hourglass as I mentioned earlier today borrows really heavily from the idea of the marketing final right? The idea the marketing funnel was you know, u you've got this big end of the funnel and your job as a marketer was to get many people in the top of that as possible and you choke just you know, a few of them down through that that small part in of course facebook came along, twitter came along and all of a sudden we had you know, even more people we could shove into the top of the funnel and now here comes your way quotable or tweet herbal moment for for this particular side you know I firmly believe when it comes to lead and referral generation happy customer is your best tool. So the idea behind the marketing hourglass is that we shift some amount of our attention and maybe expenditure even from lee generation to lead conversion and to customer ...
experience and that we really, really focused on increasingly conversion we really felt and and that could be a lot of things that could be a better sales process that could be actually analyzing your website so that you understand why people are abandoning your card I mean there many, many reforms of lead conversion andan fortunately using my online example most people just focus on how do we get more clicks you know how do we buy more ads so we will get more people viewing our pages when in many cases the rial challenge ought to be how do we make sure the people that are coming here are actually doing what we want them to do on dh there is a very in many cases very systematic approach to understanding that and to improving that on dh their experts that that's all they do that there are ways to test of that so to me that and focusing on creating a better customer experience you know is really what the idea behind the marketing hourglass so if you were called those of you were here this morning well all of you were here this morning so but those of you out there that may not have been here this morning that uh oh gun and kind of go over you know their seven it's my definition marketing is getting someone who has a need to know like and trust you and you have to turn know like and trust into tribe I repeat refer ok so that's the basic premise behind the hourglass and what I'm going to suggest is that you have to build systems and you know maybe actual products that that really logically move people through all of these stages I would go as far as saying that if you don't have these stages built of that's how you get in many cases that is how you get that customer that's a nightmare that is that how you get that customer that's not profitable it's because they haven't you haven't taken the time to educate them I mean it really is a dual responsibility I think in a lot of cases I mean we I will tell you over the years the only time I have and I mean the times in which I have gotten the worst engagements is when somebody said, you know, I have somebody that you need to work with their good friend of mine they perfect business you just need and so you know, it's like the cell is all done right? They they're ready to work with me okay? But I still didn't put him through the process of understanding how we work, why we're different why we charge a premium for what we do and so thirty days into it you know you're ready to kill each other right because it wasn't a good fit in the inn the first place and so you know, circumventing or not having process is really in most cases you know, for all of these stages is where you get yourself in trouble so it also is how again you know building this marketing hourglass is also how you really do take price lower much lower on the equation right? So somebody goes through this process they really do learn how you're different they really do come to appreciate why you charge muchmore than everybody else that's just doing it you know on a wing and a prayer they the the question about you know price it's always going to be a consideration but it goes way down the list in fact I say this all the time I mean if people are arguing through about price or they're comparing you are shopping you on price you've just not done a good job good enough job you know really educating them on the value I mean for prices or what people are willing to pay is really just based on their perceived value so what have you done what you did one of the things the hourglass really does or the elements of the our glass do is allow you to really focus on educating them in a way that increases dramatically increases the value when it comes time to say bye ok now this is what most many people's hourglass looks like they want to run an ad so that you come so they send somebody out to sell you something and occasionally they will ask you do you know anybody else who needs what we did and as I say many, many times I mean the problem a lot of times getting this idea through people's heads sometime is because a lot of people it works you know but it robs them of their profit and robs them of the ability to work with in many cases what I would view is their ideal customers right? So I'm going to go through a few slides here the way we're going to do this rest of this sessions I'm going to go few a few slides here um I'm going to go back to this original and kind of set up with each of these components might look like right and then I'm going to go through a few slides saying really which good it's going to be kind of the the framework for how you should be thinking about how do you come about figuring out what should be in your marketing our nice right? We look at what's there already what you're already doing all those things and then where the gaps okay and then we're going to end with a on exercise where and you see this poster up here we're going to end with an exercise where we will really have you guys start filling your hour okay but we're not going to do it individually we're going to kind of say ok everybody what's your thing you know in each of these boxes or these stages of the hourglass so we're going to ask the folks out in the internet world to do the same and then kelly's actual or you're gonna be our runner kelly I think it's going to take your post it notes and put him up there okay, so I know some of the typical things that go in the no box you know you're marketing kid it might be the ads that you run obviously the networking that you do the referrals I mean, these are all the kind of typical first stages of of an hourglass, right it's it's all the ways that somebody might come to know you an article they might re you know, all the you know, what are all the ways that people can come to know you once they come to know you I mean what's I mean even a referral right? Somebody says, oh, you really need to talk to county well, what's the first thing somebody does types in kelly's name into into a search engine right goes to her websites kicks around a little bit, sees what she's about, you know what her case statement looks like and thinks, you know, I I kind of like that I mean she's really active in social media I mean that's what I want my marketing person to be that mean there's all those kind of signals that air there that really set up that maybe she actually maybe she actually has hey, I want to get my newsletter maybe she actually has hey want to sign up and get my free no e book so all of a sudden it's like this is this is kind of valuable, this has been worth me coming, tio to her website, and then I do a little searching, and I find that, you know, other people are talking about her other people are sharing her content she's got marketing kit that aiken download, there are white papers or e books I can download she's actually doing a webinar next week that I can sign up for on dh when I do that, you know, I find that I get actually video content that she has placed in other places, it really talks about the whole process of doing marketing, the whole process of the challenges that that I'm facing, all the seven steps that we've talked about. So I'm all of a sudden feel like this person has really educated me on the things that I need to know they've really shared, you know, their story with me, I found other people talking about them when I searched their name, I find a lot of really good, positive stuff, so they're very active. So again, all of a sudden, you know, those pieces come together to build know, like and trust, so I go to one of kelly's workshops, or I actually call her up and do a free evaluation, and it turns out she really seems like a normal human being. She seems like she knows what she's talking about. I got a lot of value from just that thirty minutes that she didn't ask me for any money, for I got to try what it was like to actually, you know, maybe have her be my coach or my consultant. Then once I said I was ready to buy, she actually had me complete a siri's of forms that that really allowed me to give data to really understand, you know, how we were going to work together so that our first meeting together was going to be very, very valuable. Then in that first meeting, she actually gave me here's where here's the whole road map for where we're headed. Here's what I need from you to get the results, here's, how we're going to measure the results so the orientation of now, how we were going to work together, you know, long term was very spelled out, and I hope you understand, I'm I'm giving you just basically walking through an example of what you know, all the marketing kit for somebody like a consultant like kelly would look like with the idea that you start thinking about, you know, how you would feel years in, and then after we started working together ninety days after our engagement ended, she actually one scheduled a meeting so we could get together because you want to review the results she wanted to see where I was on track she want to understand, you know, and make certain that all the systems that we put in place were working and firing on all engines, and during that meeting she actually asked me for referrals. She also invited me to a customer event so again, just giving the examples walking you down, you know, a typical example of, you know, having things all in place for all of us so that you're you're not only moving people, you know, logically through these steps, but you're going after repeat business, you're going after a referral business and that you do actually have those built as systems, so let me go over some of the considerations, so obviously I'm going to ask you guys how to you know how to get this done for your business, right? So let me go over four, five slides that really focus on the things you need to do to dig in all right? Because in some cases, my guess would be if I studied all of your businesses, I would find that there are elements in place for all of these, okay, so the first step is really kind of lets audit your business ok, so the first one is what I love to have people do is think in terms of the map of of your customer's experience ok, so everybody that becomes a customer in your business what are all the contact points? What are all the ways in which they come to know like trust try by you know, after they buy you know what happens? I mean really kind of map that outs pretty amazing exercise because a lot of times people there you know and the reason I know this is because I did it all right? So any time I start talking about like, mistakes people make I'm using myself as an example, you know, a lot of times we make this stuff up, we try to figure out how to sell that we go see what works with a customer and you know that then we, you know, songs they don't complain, you know, we sent him an invoice I mean, it's just kind of like, ok, yeah, we got we got that part done, but imagine if you actually just look back now and said, what are all the ways that we do currently come into contact? What are the ways that we're not what are the ways that we could and you start saying, how could we make every single one of those touchpoints a positive marketing experience one of the ways when I talked to organizations that have larger staffs that I loved include a said you need to bring the finance people into this discussion the delivery people into this discussion right? Because those are all those are all ways in which you're coming into contact with your clients you know, the question is is it a positive marketing experience or not? So so go through and sometimes it helps actually I find this all the time we set up stuff and we've got automation going and you know, we've got a lot of things really working on then I go back and I go through it myself I go what were we thinking? You know that what what? You know what we're trying to get across here because we're missing this step and we're missing that step so even sometimes if stuff seems to be working like nobody's complaining, you know sales seem to be ok we can always improve it and so constantly going back and and mapping the customer touch points based on our conversation earlier what ill what content you're producing? Are you producing content that will match up with the hourglass? Is there no content like content trust content? What about revenue are their revenue streams that could be added for example? You know when I added a book duct tape marketing all of a sudden I had a nineteen dollars a product that, quite frankly, doesn't lovely jobs selling people into our four hundred dollars, product and into our fifteen hundred dollars, product into our twenty five thousand dollars product, right? So you know what? What? S so when we talk about the try, that doesn't always have to be a freebie that khun b something, you know, I talked about that architect they sold, you know, they did two hundred thousand dollars projects, but they sold a four hundred ninety nine dollars, let us give you an evaluation on whether or not this building is going to be a go on where all the problems they're going to be and what happened was it wasn't prime lost money on that, frankly, but they got on the short list of a lot of projects because they had already done some of the foundational work on the feasibility of whether or not that would work. So, you know, what's what you know from a revenue stream, you know what could be added? What other things afterwards. So somebody buys a product or service from years or something that you could do to make sure that that product is maintained to make sure that they get more use out of it, to make sure that they are thinking of you more often than that one time they want to buy a gift. What about relationships? What role do some of these strategic relationships play? And again I'm think I'm keep bringing you back to in the marketing hourglass conversation what role could strategic relationships play and you getting repeat business and you getting referral business? How could you use your strategic partners in that? Could you start introducing your strategic partners? Could you actually use your strategic partners to get you in front of of the know like and trust by for example inviting you to come give a workshop for their customers so no potential strategic partner I'm thinking of the person it sells the cds too the first time moms should would have you come and do a workshop on baby photography I'm just standing right now so for perfect example you know of so how do howto you know, how do we think in terms of getting, you know, all of those stages built with our potential strategic partners and then the last pieces what would you how do you track your marketing? Are glass andi I'm going to give you a couple examples of ways that I've seen do that very effectively because it really actually becomes pretty interesting when you start not only building this hourglass approach, but you really start seeing the results and you really start measuring the results of how people move through and there's actually when we talk about google analytics, there's actually ways to particularly those of you that are online I mean there's actually ways for you to visualize they call it a funnel but there's ways for you to actually visualize your conversions all the way through, you know every interaction that's done online so you can actually really have some significant indicators on where for example, your hourglass is breaking down right? Because a lot of times when we take this approach of moving people through these stages there's one of them that doesn't connect you know where there's one of them that's not converting they don't take the next step and so you're not getting the by opportunities so you want to measure kind of how people are moving through his best you can so that you can fix the places where there are sort of clogs in the hourglass so map you can create this is just an example of a spreadsheet but map your customer experience points marketing, sales, service, education delivery follow up finance you know, think about all those areas and if you're going to create a simple one, you know, this is this just says no like trust try by cruz, I can't read it because it's so small tribe I repeat refer I should know that across the top you know your promotions, your products, your processes I mean you could start analyzing all the ways that those two of those things that you've built in your business come into contact with your customers. More about content here. What content do you have currently that helps produce awareness? What content that you have currently builds trust what content? Educates what content is customer generated? What content actually is used to convert a customer again, map it against the marketing hourglass, right? So those air, those aren't all the exact stages, but you're going to need content for almost every stage of the marketing our allies, right. So what is that gonna look like? Your revenue streams mapped those against the hourglass. Probably the most important piece here is the revenue streams come in. When you're thinking about the tribe, I repeat. So most people have the buy, like here's, what we sell. So what should go ahead of the sale? What you go after the sale, in other words, is very free or low cost product, that, or process or service that ought to be added, to get people to buy maybe more frequently, or at least dipped their toe in the water. What's the after sale. And you may actually, I mean, you can get very distracted thinking in terms of, like, what's more stuff, we can sell people, but there are some really, I think, natural. Cases in which you actually would enhance what you're already selling most products can be enhanced by a service that goes along with them, and most services can be enhanced by a product or two, andi many cases, once you've built that trust your particular, if they're going to get that anyway, why wouldn't you be the likely source for it? So I think in terms of the hourglass, when you think you know our their marketing partnerships, so are there people that could create more awareness for you? Are there people that joint ventures where you could actually ad products and services because you've partnered with somebody that has a product or service that goes, you know very nicely with what you just built or what you just sold and enhances what you just built, what you just sold? What about some some people that you look at his competitors? Are there some competitors that you could go together with and hold, say, a group workshop together so that you'd create awareness for each other, knowing that you all do? Maybe something just a tad different? Or you have a different point of view are their vendors and suppliers that that you buy from that could actually would be incentivized to create awareness for you? You know, that would be create would be incentivized to market for you. So think in terms of again on what I'm doing really here is just peppering you with, you know, all the potential ways that you can think about this idea because there are many on dso I want to make this this ideas biggest possible and then we'll kind of come back and say, ok, how do we how do we make it? You know, you're one thing that you are make it your exercise that you can do in your business begin with the referral in mind a lot of times we have a really tendency to think top down, right? How do I create awareness? How do I get people who, you know, come and see me? How do I get appointments? Right, it's all that stuff on the front end that leads to a sale, and what I'd like to suggest is that you think in terms of how do I get a referral? And if you start there it's going to force you to say, ok, how do we create a better customer experience? Okay, how do we create better orientation for a new customer? How do we make sure that every you know, touch point is a positive one and you'll eventually end up with, you know, how do we make the phone ring? But I find that if we start with that experience it will force us to to really think about what I think is probably the most important and probably missing ingredient so for example, if you were going to use the marketing our guys so I've been talking about it so far as a way to think in terms of your overall business but let's say you were launching a new product let's say you had a promotion that you wanted to do you were doing maybe one of these joint ventures um ask yourself this what I want the customer to think and do ninety days after they've made the purchase what I want them to be doing forty five days after what I want them to be thinking and doing at the day that they make the purchase you know where they signed the contract what's my trial offer for them you know, what's my way that I continue to nurture on drip information to them you know, how do I build trust? How do I create awareness? So even if it's just for a specific product or campaign or special promotion that you want to run if you use the marketing hourglass thinking and mentality I think it allows you to build better campaigns allows you to build better promotions again thinking with the end in mind I had a number of people whose using a serum you know, he's a customer relationship management tools okay you know like people you spreadsheets and people use outlook for keeping track of their customers but a true customer relationship management tool will allow you to help me keep track of customers but keep track of you know where people are in the in the process in the sales process in many cases so you know I use ah tool I've I actually used to I used nimble onda reason I really like that see arm tools because I can it automatically brings in everybody anybody that I put in there their social graph and so I could see what they're doing on facebook and see what they're doing the twitter unifies our messaging so all it sinks with gmail and so I could know if I sent him an email I could know if I re tweeted I could know if they tweeted me so it really just the quite frankly I used that for what I call my closest relationships so I have you know, maybe five hundred people in that tool and then the hundred thirty thousand you know other going into what we call infusion soft that's called infusion soft um and those you know though that that's a pretty high powered c r m tool e commerce tool but the point is both of those systems actually allow us to create stages and where you know a client or a prospect is on dh so we can actually tag people as you know, if they come in, if they sign up for our newsletter, then they moved to this stage, you know, they moved to another stage in our final if they attend a webinar, they moved to another stage in our cia ram, and it automatically tags them so that I can tell you at any given time how many people we haven't try and how many people we haven't by and how many people we have in repeat, and we even tag people that are making referrals. So, um, you know, we have I probably use it more complex system than a lot of businesses, you know, necessarily use, but I wanted to really give that point that I think you can start if you really embrace this idea, you can really start quantifying people in those kind of the stages of your sierra, so I'm going to give you a list of questions um, that really I think get to the heart of trying to understand what you know, what should be in your marketing hourglass, and then we're going to move really, to a discussion about each of the seven eloped it's okay, but core questions you should be asking, how will people learn about your value proposition? What will make them want to nome or what will lead them to give you permission to share your story so you see how these this's no like trust okay what can you offer is proof that they will get the result they desire how can you make the buying experience fun effective and convenient what can you do to measure and ensure that your customer gets the result they expected and more and finally what will lead every customer to talk about us to their friends, neighbors and colleagues so answering those seven questions is really how you start to get at you know what do we need to develop for each stage of the marketing hourglass so before we go to putting you got well I'm going to do is we're going to go to this thing and we are going to um really address each of the seven elements but first I want toe I wantto well I you guys ask questions I want questions to come in here on dh then we'll start kind of as a group start discussion discussing how you could each build your out realizes so we'll start here internally so what questions do you have in terms of getting this started is a website like yelp would that be know or trust? Well, you know there's a lot of there's a lot of crossover and all of these right? But I think if I'm out there looking for a business and I don't know who you are necessarily but I want photographers in a certain city and you you know, I'm looking at yelp, I'm probably using the that could be know, like and trust all in one phase, but there's a pretty good chance I'm going to go to your web site, you know? But I'm but there's also a pretty good chance I'm going to say you two stars and, you know, move on, right? So it's, you know, it's a bear very important, particularly for for increasing business industries, a very important part of the whole know, like and trust, but it can't stand alone, really, it can actually stand alone in eliminating you, but it probably won't stand alone in getting your sale. But there's, a lot of crossover, you know? I mean, I could make a case for ah webinar, I mean, I could make a case of an event like this. There are a lot of people out there in the world watching this that that have not heard of duct tape marketing, but because of my strategic relationship with creative live, they are coming to know, like, and trust me, hopefully in a very short period, but because I was able to borrow that awareness from my strategic partner so it's a great example of really of how you know the hourglass works and that we're going there serum tools that are built for companies with forty five salespeople and the process sixteen, two thousand leads a week and whatnot in it and it can you know it could make toast and it can you know, I mean so I mean, the drawback to a lot of those is if if the tools more complicated than the results you get, you know, then it's not going to do you any good I think there are a lot of people to get really sort of sucked into this idea of look, all the data we get, you know, any tool that doesn't get data in you know can't put data out and so if if if you've got one hundred customers and you just kind of want to make sure you know you're keeping track of the last time you contacted them, you're keeping track of what you've sold them I mean, it's there are some really simple solutions, you know, I mentioned nimble several times it's kind of my really current favorite right now because it really is very, very easy to use is very, very low cost it's ah online service cost ten dollars a month, you know, for a single user, I think, um and really does a lot of great feature rich things if you're somebody that really you know wants to you know you have lots of customers you want to segment you know who's bought what you want to set up campaigns for, you know and marketing automation for how to contact them mean there's some great tools that they do that as well and infusion soft is the one we use that does that quite well but it really comes down to kind of what you're what your needs are is going to dictate I think everybody has the need to actually have good information about their customers and how much they've been contacting them you know and staying in contact with them so it's sort of a bassline I think you would at least have a tool that will do that have a question coming in from joe of'em x what is the timeframe for a business to incorporate the hourglass into its core daily activities? That is a great question I mean I could make a case for a start up using this as a business model really for you know, determining pretty much every direction they're going to go how they're going to start their business but so if that's the question about time frame like how long do I have to be in business before I do this? I don't know I think it's just a great tool for kind of keeping track of and planning and running your business in a way so I mean I think that I think every business should use you know some approach like this obviously I don't think it really matters, you know and I think that you can I mean I know that we do this our business I have a general framework for our entire business it's built on the hourglass and then every time we do something you know we it's like a planning tool I mean we get out and say ok what's our our allies for this s s so it really is ah very flexible you know framework to use it senator, this isn't something that you just use as a general planning tool this is on the use for like individual initiatives individual product every time we launch a new product if we want to run a campaign if we want to pack it some things together if we if it's something that that's a serious initiative from you know any kind I mean if if we decide hey we needed john needs to be doing more speaking and we want to, you know, approach speakers bureaus or we want approach associations or something will say ok what's our hourglass for doing that. So it's it's really a decision making to a lot of ways andi, obviously you get more comfortable with it, the more you use it but I like to present it initially as a framework for your whole business as your as you're building it so I talk about strategic relationships and I talk about revenue streams you know it's part of it because in some cases you you're going to make some changes to your product mix you're going to make some changes to your business relationships based on embracing this approach but then from that point forward you can pull it out any time you really want to do something new what was the last hour glass that you did personally the last hour glass we have a fairly new a program that I were actually all of tomorrow's courses some comes from something called total online presence so we have I have a very small group coaching program that actually about ten business owners a cz at a time go through an eight session online program with me has a full portal and um we we kind of we are consultants use that same program and we kind of I personally bring it out and use it to keep it fresh to update it to have a kind of lab my laboratory on dh so that was the last that was the last thing that you know that that campaign probably back in january um was built based on the hard line school we'll learn more about that tomorrow yeah that's right that's right? So I think we've got one more question on this is from jennifer james um what does it look like in your sierra and software when you have a customer in the tri stage and you want to move them along to the next step one of the practical step steps there and kind of contact options yeah so you can do it with marketing automation I mean so sometimes when people moved to next up with us it happens automatically because we've set it up in the sierra and if they do except you know they now are in this stage right but another kind of nice thing about it is let's say you're managing fifty or one hundred relationships and you're you know you're calling him your hot prospects right well so you can manually move people along and so what happens is you say you know it's been a little slow right so let me go look who's in the try you know they ought to hear from us you know, maybe you know we look at everybody that is in that when they came into that phase from you know in the serum and say well gosh they seem to be stuck let's generate some interest let's run a sale you know let's send out these people that are in our deal you know let's tell him the next twenty four hours we've got this special package if they want if they want to move forward on dso you know that's another great way I think too bye bye kind of categorizing these people you're not cannibalizing your entire effort by sending that after everybody you know, people who have already bought people who haven't even really understand your value proposition you really focused on the people that have gone up to a certain point you've pretty much told him everything you're going to tell him and they kind of stalled and so now you say hey, next twenty four hours come, come and get it and you generate you know, you generate some buys from that who is committed to building their our place, okay? Because we're not feeding you you know, until you raise your hand so um no, you know, I really I can't stress the importance of this I think enough on dso really don't I want to make sure you understand it, but I also don't want you to just dismiss it as oh yeah, that was that that was a nice lesson in this has to be this has to be worked on and this has to be kind of internalized so s so let's go back before we jump into because we have plenty of time on this before we jump into the actual using the post it note let me ask how many of you think you could map your customer experience? Ok, so what would that look like? Anybody raise their hand go ahead, so are customer experience starts with however they contact us initially so be it on the blogger they've phoned in or something like that ah and then whatever comes next which is generally that we try to get them into an evaluation with us and that sort of their try opportunity where they're coming in they're getting you know evaluated in terms of all these performance indicators and then we kind of cap that off with a trial session going in our facility and so you know what they get out of that is they're gonna receive all this data we get the information we need to actually program for them and they also get something kind of free in terms of that trial session right and then from there we try to move them along into uh you know what we really want them to buy which is going to be a training package and then it goes into once they buy we map out session by session sort of different conversations that should be occurring with that client uh that then gets them into where they're going to become repeat clarence so so it sounds like you have I mean you're doing a lot of this that's awesome do you in listening to the full description do you do you feel like you have any gaps? Yeah definitely on what do you mind me since you were so adamant about that you might be saying where where the gaps I think in the initial contact phase for sure, like so, you know, when somebody first contacts us before they actually become clients, that's where there's a lot of gaps when they're in receiving our service, you know, hands down, I know no problem, they're taking thereof everything's happening, you know, we're great level block aa, and then after that so let's say that they go through training cycle with us, and then they don't re sign for some reason, well, they've already spent money with us, you know? But we don't have a system in place that is going out and just reaching back in with them, you know, I genuinely want these people to stay in touch with our company, but I don't, nor do any of the coaches physically have time to do that manually, so the gaps are definitely at the beginning of the process, and then at the end of the process, so tell me about your referral process than a lot of folks in your industry, you know, pretty aggressively go after referrals, but what do you do to create kind of those people? They're having a great experience that air getting great results? Do you have anything that you systematically, then you kind of turned them into champions in some fashion? Yeah, I know the little bits of things that I have tried have not been successful eso it hasn't really encouraged me to try to much more the thing that we know that works is that they receive you know, this excellent service, these exceptional results in the mate they just want to know what do you don't get a lot of that, right? Yeah. Look great. What do you do it right, but in terms of, like figuring out ways to maybe incentivize them or anything like that, I haven't found whatever that right right? Mixes. Okay. All right, great. Thanks. Chris, did you were you were you know, we have the customer contact email are you a contact form phone schedule? A constant onsite consultation? We go out, take a look, evaluate, provide them basically what? You know what we're gonna do? How we can solve their problem estimate and then it's in their hands we follow up to see where they're at eventually. You know, if someone is just kind of trailing alone, they just fall off because we have other people kind of think about but like for us, I guess I'm interested in the tri like part of it. Yeah, because you know, we can tell them I say x number, square feet you collect a whopping forty thousand gallons of water a year that's the evaluation top of stuff but you know what can we do as a try and that's where I'm in the hourglass kind of you know stuck with you know we're we're with my because if somebody buys it's a pretty good it's pretty significant commitment right? They're going to commit to construction a lot of money you know? And so all right, so what have you try to think of another word used for this? Have you tried anything for a try? No sure haven't anything other than, you know, just looking at some of the examples you know, of course the evaluation but like, you know, the nurturing activities, the webinars you know, taking home if they haven't made a decision, you know what? Maybe we can do that email him and say, hey, there's this great video now that you know that hopefully we'll make it make him get to next step, but we haven't done do you have a demonstration install? Uh yeah others are just customers, hostels and and many of our welcome their homes open to you know, have you ever done an event we've never done event that would be I think that would be like, look at the weather and make sure it's raining and because the umbrellas that exactly I think that would be kind of a cool event, frankly, um as part of the tri yeah, you know, because I think maybe because it is a challenge for you but I think that especially if you have customers that were really into that I think that would be that would be an awesome thing to explore so let me ask the group anybody can chime in here who's looking at this and going I don't know how to make this work for me or you know I have serious challenges with all the parts of this not someone that but if you had to pick one place to begin so I mean you have lots of gaps yeah, what would be the biggest levin in the hourglass itself, right? Like I go from you know, all right contacto by and down zero to thirty, right? You know, I think if knowing what I know about your business being web design business I think that I would actually add a um so when somebody says they want to buy right now you just you what do you do when somebody when somebody does say they want to buy? Well, I've actually learned to sort of push it back a little and take him through a process, okay, but it's not documented there's no, you know, ok let's, figure out what you need I'll send you proposal I think that's where I would start I think that you particularly sensible, a lot of your your business comes by way of referral, mostly, and then some job sites, okay, so, I mean, I think that would be really important for you, so so do you sometimes then get in a situation where people, the first thing they ask is, how much is this going to cost? Yeah, well, that all depends on what you want to have, right? So, I mean, I think you would really want to have I think you'd want to have a documented process that on the front end shows you mean business shows you're serious, shows you are you're asking questions about stuff they haven't even thought of, right? Because what happens, I'm been down this road so many times with web designers is a basically selling website, you know, how much on dh then, you know, you can't even start to do any good work for him to you to you spend fifteen hours of unpaid, no research, right, trying to figure out what it is that they're all about even all right? So I think having I mean, to me, one of the things I think would be really essential for you is building a formalized process so and in the process, when you build these to me, this could be a trust, you know, this could be a try and a lot of ways, right? Because you're actually asking him things that they hadn't thought of asking and it's not about creating convenience for you. Ultimately, that will actually happen, but it's actually about creating value for them. So you actually build a process that that actually gets them thinking about what they should be thinking about and doing what they should be doing, but it allows you to really thoroughly, I think, demonstrate, you know what you're doing, you're so that would be if you're just looking for one place to go first, that would be well for me, it would be it, yeah, I haven't saved from with us. The top part of that funnel is pretty empty. We're doing a better job with the bottom half, and I I think things that you pointed out today, like, for example, our story and the customer story can khun b for me, those are areas that I think we can, you know, immediately haven't impact on and and I think, would also help the make it a lot easier on this on the selling process, in terms of adding a little bit more life to to the product um, the refer thing we that piece. I mean, and I think this is the case with a lot of start ups it's most of the time, and I think the reason we're here even is a lot of times, everything you do is reactive it's when do you decide to be proactive? Um, that that you actually can have an impact on your business, and now the referrals come in to us and then we respond, but we're not really doing anything proactively, so when you say that the top part know, like trust is is a little blank, do you see you mentioned some of the marketing kid things, but you know what? Air some what do your customers, what are they trying to do when they look for somebody like you? Why? Why do they look for somebody that does what you do that a lot of times right now, the way that we've segmented the market is that there's companies small to midsize companies that air using a travel company and those that aren't we're not really targeting those that aren't right now because they don't value and there's a lot more education and loved, and but on the on the other side, these air a lot of people of companies that are just unhappy with the service that they're getting or generally it's a lot of that have you ever taken a company that's not using a travel okay no, no question more education but have you ever have you been able to do an assessment or let's say even a company called you and say hey, we want you look at what we're doing see what you could do for us have you ever been able to run some sort of evaluation that you're able to clearly demonstrate if you worked with us you would save x or that and save convene time you know control you know, overruns I mean it could mean a lot of things but are you able to actually run some sort of analysis that way I think we we have the customers there I think that's kind of that customer story that you're talking about it it's extracted and pointing those types of customers because you know, I could see you doing what I mean is the primary benefit that you're offering is cost savings is that or is that one of the benefits it's interesting it actually it's more I think support an access I think that's what's really missing in the marketplace more than more than the cost it seems like people are less concerned about that I'm at the airport and I need to reach somebody and I'm now in a whole queue for twenty minutes so it's it's almost more the help desk component is is important as the rest of it yeah okay um the reason I say that started talking about that a value or that analysis thing is I mean, I think that that I could see that being a try for you if you were able to you know that I know if you saw how like energy companies used to do it and phone audit companies used to be you know, there was that thing where they would come in and say, look, you don't we don't cost anything um you know, our service doesn't cost anything you know, we take just a percentage of you know, of what we save you and I know I'm not suggesting that you go that route because I think it's probably more complicated what you you know, just auditing bills but that that you kind of take that approach of you know, you come up with a formula that basically says if you know, share this these five data points with us and will run numbers on how we can you know, this would be called would be more cost effective to use us, you know, then to use to do what you're currently doing on I think if you could actually turn that into a process and again it's not just about I mean, I think you build I think you build time you lost time into it I think there are lots of ways that you could build more than just you know, savings on expenditures, but it's, just all the things that you you have found in your experience and working with organizations, I think that kind of calculator type of thing would be a tremendous tool free, so it's, I'm not saying it would be easy, but I think it I think it would be a great would be a great tool for you to use in converting some of these folks that maybe just aren't convinced that they want to spend money there. All right, so the internet is speaking, I know you were asking you wanted to make sure that everybody understands this before we get teo trying it out, so I need a london said she wants to know how to use it for a very new business that isthe service based and just starting up. And so I asked her for a little bit more detail, and she said she's, based in london, she's in an executive coach specializing in career strategy for women aged thirty five to fifty five, and she is literally sitting up, and I have very, very few good examples to follow in the uk. She wants to get it right from the start, um, well, I think there are some tremendous examples of coaches, you know, doing maybe not her specialty, but you know, the model is very similar to what you know, what a marketing consultant coach would do, you know, it's it's put out, you know, good content, so people are finding you that having a reason, that they want to give you their email so that they could gnome or signing those people up for ah workshop or a webinar, maybe having some, you know, many coaches, consultants have a free coaching session, you know? So you don't tell us a little bit about you, and I'll do a free coaching session, which then leads into, you know, a siri's of packages, I mean, that that's actually one that's for me, it's pretty easy to imagine how she would build the various elements that would move people along that path and the thing that's, the thing I don't, I'm getting the impression this is so linear on dh that's, really the, you know, that's, really the only way to presented really so that it makes sense, but in reality is after you build it, people will come in at different places, some people will, you know, for example, when I get asked to speak at an event a lot of times, that's, you know, snow, like, trust, try and in some cases, by you know built in tow one because of the opportunity I've been brought there and referred they'd end up thinking I know what I'm talking about I present information that they say ok, this is going to be great you know I met the person on dh they made an offer for me to buy something I mean so some cases you know having you know, thinking of these stages but then understanding that they're very in many cases very interchangeable parts on dh very many interchangeable applications but I the difference is I know that that's what goes on you know at that at that speaking event right? So I know that I'm moving people through those stages so it's not I'm not really skipping any of those stages because there's education in that there's trust building in that there's tryin that so hopefully that makes sense and again um this is one of those concepts I mean we could talk about for a long time I think but it ah, because it has so many ways that you can apply it on guy think that obviously I've been doing it for a long time and so it's just that it's just sort of you know nature to me to think that way but but you know a cz you do it and start using it and just start reminding yourself to do it it will certainly become more natural to you as well great so floating lime devon says, if you are creating a process to establish what a client wants and to help them understand your unique selling points in value, how do you make it detailed enough without them giving up and decided it's just too difficult to buy from you? Yeah, there's, there's definitely a fine line. I mean, I think that I think that you you don't you want to put enough hoops that somebody demonstrates that they're interested, that demonstrates they're going to be a good fit, like if you're going to need them to do, you know, if you're going to need them to do certain things in order to be a good client, then you you obviously need to make them in some degree, I think you want them to prove that they're going to actually do those things, but there's, certainly you can go overboard because, you know, a lot of times, you know, the the particularly the no like trust and maybe even try, though, should there should be not that much friction there, enough that somebody is, you know, it's serious? They wanted they want to take the materials they want to read them, they want to express interest in a certain way, but you you don't want to as he said make it so that they just want to give up and you know, I've encountered that some in some cases it's so much work just to get the basic information that you kind of give up so that you know that early on for example if we capture a lead all I ever asked people for their first name in their email address you know, I never I mean it's really tempting sometimes to get you know, ten data points so that you could segment them and you can put him in all the you know, all these groovy campaigns and things but you just really put up a wall because again what they're trying at that point they don't know like and trust me they just wanna they just want some information that they think might be useful and that information just needs to be useful enough that they want to then take the next step so we have time yeah so monet says and this is something I've heard a number of times during different workshops how does john deal with the fact that when you offer something free so that potential customers will fill performing give you an email address? A many of those air not actually potential customers but rather competitors trying to steal your strategy and also a lot of the e mails may not be really email address? Well the really email address one quite frankly you you know their email service providers can actually I mean it might not be their actual real address but you khun you could certainly get past that with making sure that it's not just xxxx s so it's in the format so that's step number one another thing that a lot of people do is is they make double opt in so or at the very least instead of when somebody gives you an email address it doesn't just say it doesn't just route you to another page and said download this it actually you get the download link sent to you via email put in a bogus email you're not gonna get you're not going to get the link right? So those are a couple ways that people kind of handle the email part earlier today we had kind of a similar question about you know how much to give away there's really no, I don't think there's unless you've invented you know some product that that you know that is so top secret that you know if anybody learns about how you did it you know you probably shouldn't be writing about it right for most people I think that you can thoroughly educate people on your exact process and I just I think instead of spending time you know worrying about what you call competitors you know just just dominate the world instead you know I mean, you know, this union there's a lot of reasons that cause anxiety and you know, a lot of ways to cause anxiety and I think you just go out there and if you're if you are producing a methodology that really works that you know that you're having clients that you're having success with one of the things about a vibrant kind of client communities I mean, I have people write to me not all the time fortunately but semi frequently saying hey, this person's ripping your stuff off you know or this this person's you know, using some of your stuff and they shouldn't be so you know, I think that the good guys seemed always win that's my that's my story and I'm sticking to a good start all right, so you guys want to do some post it notes absolutely ready to supposed to nuts the hourglass shape no like trust tribe I repeat refer and so I'm just going to go we're going to go I want you to record you could do more than one if you want but I want you to write down you know what? And these air commitments okay, so this isn't just here's a couple good ideas I want commitments from you on you know, what are you going to produce for what's what's going to be one thing you're going to do to produce more nos okay so how people can become more aware of you what's one thing you can do you just for the internet out there want to know how specific do you want us to get what's a good example for a particular business? Well so you might act I mean any of you might actually say I'm going to explore and start running and tracking facebook ads you know that could be a way for people to get to know you um away you know you you can actually flip this on its head and say I'm going to start finding strategic partners that would invite me to come speak to their customers you know, as a way even though that I would are you that that my v a referral is well that's a way for people to get to know me okay? So the no parts actually you know it's all it's it's a lot of the kind of advertising things we do it's the it's, the creating awareness so it might just be you could also say I mean you could make a case for saying I'm going to write a block post every day this month on dh it's going to be all on topic and it's going to be stuff that I know it's going to be answering questions that I know my customers always ask me on going to use that as content because that's going to help me be found when people go out there searching on the same kinds of questions that people ask me every day okay, how about there in internet land? We're putting some nose up here okay? So now that I'm just going to start reading some of these off and you guys feel free to steal from each other, okay trade shows who wrote that what you're okay, so are their trade shows that air that you think are viable for you to go to there was an accusation way have come off in such yes, ok all right, awesome and and at those trade shows people come by and you'll get to tell your story and they would have never heard of you before, right? Okay content blogger who wrote death that's you again okay didn't look like same handwriting ok, so you're going to start blogging as a way? Okay? Yeah um writing an article on leather care for another blawg who wrote that I'm just getting so that's awesome so guess blogging tremendous way to get some create some awareness you produce valuable content guessing you know a thing or two about leather care folks click over to say there's never I need take care of some my leather goods I love my bags that I have I love this stuff I have and presto create some awareness blogged one photo every day who was that that was you that that's. Awesome. So you're going to start putting out your photos now, what would make that phone? I mean, what would make that more valuable to somebody? I mean, either that they go is in that incredible photography. That's really cute, baby, what else could you do so that somebody would find that it's not an original idea. Um, but none of their sentence, but it would. It would. It would increase traffic for me, but it also helps me practice, which is something that okay, as a star affirmed the both of those things I got what would make that valuable to somebody out there looking ok, because a lot of these awareness things come about, because maybe they're searching so, like, because what could you make sure that fag stuff. And so then it puts me on and where? L studio. Where else do you put those folks? Could you put him in instagram? Could you put him in interest? Could you put him in? Could you get other? Are there other photographers that would share them? Um, perhaps we need to work on that one for you. Okay. We need other photographers or other people in baby related industry or other people in grad related industry. We need to start you, I believe that you actually could could get photography business by teaching people how to take their own pictures but there would be a lot of photographers that would probably say no way way exactly so way about that exact don't video bianchi talked about how to run workshops for moms in order to teach them photography so that they value your photography zach which is even better than what they can do that's awesome and I don't mind giving away some of the secrets because it really takes a lot of practice tio put the implement them I actually just had a post where I showed two out of three composite pictures on how to get that that baby doing this thing but I then I had a ton of traffic like well how do you put the hair back in so then I actually did another post for I inserted the third picture and I don't mind doing that because I can guarantee you most sure people can just do it right so it takes a tremendous amount of practice you'll send me the how you could you hear back you all right so do we have some from the internet? You have some from the internet we had you know you talk about facebook ads but we've got linked in and shirts um we've got I'll give this to you so free session one times a month obviously we don't have as much feedback twitter post daily bi weekly blonde post linked in ads new car design daily so that's problem maybe along the lines of your so that's probably a designer of short um guess blog's video tutorials who said that one as me good all right uh create valuable download pretty vague who said that I like where you're going with it but we'll have to get more specific about that one okay so some great ideas there anybody kind of picked up a couple more ideas because again every single one of these could be tweaked their twisted to applied every single one of them quite frankly ok so let's go with like put that out to the internet as well what are some things that ok I saw your facebook ad I saw your guest post so I clicked over what what what could you do to make me start wanting to know more okay and like you know like one of those terms that could and you don't need him to like you right maybe you just want him to respect you you want him to think that you know you you actually have something you're an expert you have something important to say any more of those okay uh huh ok that I like that one course that's somebody that's already a customer this was says with accounts receivable invoice included helpful biz growth tip I think that's great idea obviously that's somebody that's customer but you know, maybe now you're working on a repeat customer. Um passion story who said that so so telling your story do you have a really good when we haven't heard about you know just the way you do you I mean I quit my job your job right making really decent money and then just went back to school so okay, I agree I think that again that's a perfect example of how to use that because of for connection purposes provide free educational content on the web site product videos ah add personality to videos on blawg is that right? Okay, so what do you tell us more about that? Wait put up like a lot of videos on the log but, um I think all of the coaches that put them up for me could like just add some at personality, you know, everybody's pretty reserved you know, I think that would be a lot of fun and allow people to really like us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely it's started having some personality so I gotta know what a geek out video is way that's a lot of cars and you talked about being you really you know, we're not perfect and I'm just doing goofy things, you know? And one of our kind of our business model is hey there's a formula for that which fits with what you're sure there's a system so for everything there's a formula it's, a little geeky yeah ok, so you guys have some from the internet awesome tio participate in discussions linked in discussion specifically uh putting your story on the website then animated demo video intro page and uh video on bio page as well what site those air coming in and said just words and pictures ok, how about trust got about eight minutes maybe we won't get through the whole thing I think the exercise makes sense what we're doing you know hopefully but uh trust get right on it it's ok, so I have a, uh customer that has a shoe store for but it's all optimal running is what shoe stores actually called so it's all you know it's not just your nike shoes I mean it's really some stuff you know has the whole barefoot stuff he's got the whole you know, low drop stuff um and so he has a lot of people that ask questions and he started doing this where people would come to his website and they you know, they were kind of saying, well, I know about this shoo versus issue he'll actually get out of camera here's a whole set up and he just gets out the shoes and does a personalized video two back to the person you know, asking for these recommendations on dh what he found is I mean obviously takes a lot of work but the trust factor is huge andi people you know, because he doesn't really I mean in some cases he might have a very a new opinion about yeah, you definitely need this shoe, you know, based on what you told me because he has a form from to fill out but these personalized videos just get past all over the place, you know, like crazy because I mean, who does that right? So so has really turned into quite a trust building tool using video but the touches that he personalizes the video he actually addresses their specific question client case study obviously great trust builders written and video testimonials customer testimonials looks like a lot of people are on the same path they're um webinar on faa trust women are on faa cues who didn't want what would that be? Just a weapon or on all the frequently asked questions anything that comes up regularly and so so actually ones that were preplanned or you mean people would just have the ability to ask anything there would be some planning? Yeah, I would have my marketing my calendar, right? Yeah, I know, but I mean, it wouldn't be like you wouldn't just get up there and give frequently it would actually be come to a q and a session yeah, great now that's a great that's, a great to a lot of times that offer some sort of a ongoing process where people can jump in and listen maybe they don't even have to register you know, they just really you can really give a lot of of useful information or let them ask the questions that they might have um okay let's go try is one of my favorites and actually, um this might be our last won t do and really the by process quite frankly is you know we're going to study by and repeat and refer a bunch so what do you got for trying when here's some really clever ones for this? Okay, this is the probably the place where I think you can think outside the box the most so remember try khun b something they actually do for free try can be something that's just a low cost product are try khun b a slimmed down version you know of what you offer so that they can know maybe maybe really have the full experience but not have to commit long term so there are lots of ways to think about you know what tries could be let's just read some of them off coming way have tried develop assessment interview as a free product right? You've got someone who's paying attention a free thirty minute consultation yeah all right bring those up kill free quote says go ahead trial bundle who wrote that what is so what like a value offering that doesn't include all the premium services. So at a value pressure. Okay, that's. Awesome. Um, many sessions. Ok, so what would that look like that, uh, like, a twenty to thirty minute session with a couple prints. Okay, but then they would get a big gallery, so if they wanted more than they would pay for yeah. Okay. So just really making, like, a starter offer. Yeah, awesome. Um, customer audit, the thing about these tries, I will say is, you know, there's, a lot of people given stuff away for free now, right? That's become a really accepted model, and so you'll you think maybe you've heard this phrase before, you know, I think that what it's challenged a lot of business is that take this approach is you have to kind of move the free line, um, and what you know that implies is that you're free stuff has to be better than in some cases than what a lot of people are actually charging for, for this to really be, you know, so it really ups the ante for that, but I I personally think that, um, that for the right types of business, I mean, if you're selling a very, you're selling a thirty nine forty nine dollars product it's a little harder to do that but a lot of businesses out there you know, the lifetime value of a customer might be tends to, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars so so you're try I think obviously needs to be really in a lot of ways in proportion you know, with that so that that somebody you know it might be free and it might be something that's unbelievable that blows people away but you know, imagine somebody who thinks well guess if that's the free stuff you know, imagine how great the paid stuff ihs and so that's I think that's one of the challenges that we have to live with today's money back that's that's that's actually great to me I think that's probably I mean fall squarely in trust for a lot of people it might be you know, try as well, but it really gets to that removing the risk component but and it can be very, very powerful I'm a big fan of I think, you know, I think, you know, obviously there are limits to it I mean, people abuse things, but I think in most situations, you know, I think you want a say look, if you're not happy if this isn't what you thought it was going to be, you know, it's there's no red it's an incentive to buy, but I think it's also, and it sort of eliminates the risk and I think keeps people happier. So there are a lot of questions coming in about specific different businesses. Like what try for a service based industry try for apparel try for a photographer other than the many sessions. Yeah, um and he thought probably overarching thing that I would say is businesses aren't as different as they think they are on dh the principles and that's, really? Why the duct tape marketing system? Why may well, actually apply system that really every type of business, because the principles apply and then it's really a matter of marrying the try to your value proposition to you know what you do well, so, you know, apparently there was ah, I don't know if it's around anymore, but there was a great startup in the apparel industry that would actually shipped out a video camera. Two people then they would ship on the whole like they would they would, they would actually, it was a style consultant, really, as much as anything dealing with men. You know, men hate to go in chop, try stuff on, you know, it's great, oh, gross generalization. But I've heard is true and so they would send out about this so they would have an interview with the person they'd send out all this stuff they could try it on they'd say well, this is what we think you know, these are a couple outfits that we think would work for you they would actually get on a video chat with them they would try the stuff on they'd say ok, you know, put this with that do this with that and then they basically sent anything they didn't want, you know back so they would they would buy all this stuff originally and then send all the stuff they did I think they just paid for what they ended up keeping. Um that was really a great try I thought for when you mention apparel business but it really obviously people do need to dig in and think you know what they need to do specifically for their business. But I think these concepts really apply universally this's that so I made that sounds like not the answer they wanted, but I really I think where we get really hung up is thinking that we have to have the example that's you know, that's unique to our business and really almost every single one of these examples we put up here works in just about every other business have any final thoughts for the day um come back tomorrow is and you know, that includes you guys is one of the major thoughts I'll tell you, you know, I've said it numerous times tomorrow is all internet online web stuff, so I'm not going to teach you howto build a website or anything, but I'm really going to focus hard on this this whole idea of taken some of the concepts we've talked about today and applying them to the total online presence and how to integrate so today was all strategy did I expand your view of what strategy is, um and and I think that, you know, imagine if every business in the world kind of took this approach to strategy I mean, I think that it's this gives you this ability to build this this incredible foundation, that then everything we talk about the next two days is going to be so much more effective now in a perfect world you guys would, I would tell you come back and two days, you know, after you've done all the things that like her on your list now of things to do to make some more progress, so you have to commit you guys in here, you guys out there, you have to commit to you know, don't worry, we're going to cram all this information in three days, but you have to commit to six weeks, eight weeks of trying to to map this out and build this out so that you make some amount of progress and not just take, you know, pages and pages of notes. Absolutely. I think that I mean, that's. One of the key things for this and and really, any other workshop is you have to do it.
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a Creativelive Student
I started my own marketing consulting business from scratch after returning from a 10-year overseas mission in Africa. Needless to say, I was starting over when I came back to the U.S. I had a relatively small network, little money, and didn't know what I was doing. I started following John's blog and quickly discovered the system that I would be using to build my business. It's been a lot of work, but following the Duct Tape Marketing system has enabled me to know the practical components of a real marketing strategy (not just a mission statement or empty words on a page), a lead generation plan, a real idea of what I'm doing online, and a way of looking at how I serve my clients. It has also taught me how to market my business - which has proven extremely value as I have developed into several other niche markets over the years. I simply apply the same Duct Tape Marketing system and it gives me steps to take, results to expect, and a path to achieving the vision I have. Each year our agency does an annual internal inspection. We examine our businesses under the lens of Duct Tape Marketing (which we know by heart now, thus we can truly evaluate our own business against the reality of a proven marketing system). Each year, we discover gaps that need to be shored up, new opportunities that should be explored, and higher revenue goals to shoot for. I was so excited about DTM that I joined the global network of DTM consultants several years ago. Now I help all my small business clients install the Duct Tape Marketing system and they love it, too! Duct Tape Marketing is the best.
Awesome content John!